Objectivity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by robini123, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    We agree on the irony anyway... that is good to see. Also the other points mentioned above, I will not attempt an argument against.


    That is cool. However the publication of such inferences can be construed as a solicitation for others to join the club consisting of those who have already accepted the inference as true without having PROOF of claim.
     
  2. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    My point wasn't an argument between science and religion. And unless you believe in evil spirits I must assume you understand the point that what we believe versus what we know has a direct correlation between subjectivity and objectivity.

    The woman in this case was in the minority even though her belief used to be the majority. That perspective was directly changed by a growing scientific understanding.

    The fact that neither the psychiatric treatment nor the exorcism worked doesn't place them on the same footing.
     
  3. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Of course it places them on the same footing. They both failed.
     
  4. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that we agree that humans are not capable of absolute objectivity, then what basis for proof is there of anything? Lets take this beyond science and ask what proof is there of God? If humanity lacks the capability of absolute objectivity then how can any come to any absolute conclusion on the question of God... or the right way to parent a child... or the right political beliefs... or taste great vs less filling... etc.?
     
  5. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    First: I believe that the word "god" is a man made construct (a label), however, god (or God) as an entity is not man-made but was revealed to man by God (the entity).

    Because God has not been detected by any of the finest of scientific equipment, then in this day and age it would be reasonable to assume that God (the entity) is either beyond the physical realm and physical capability to detect; else God does not exist. My option is that God (the entity) cannot be detected by scientific equipment and that God (the entity) will reveal Himself to whomsoever He pleases to reveal Himself

    As for the 'right way to parent a child', or 'the right political beliefs', 'taste great vs less filling', those are man-made constructs that initially exist outside of any system of law.. However, some of those man made constructs have fallen prey to man made law to circumvent far reaching disparity between groups of individuals participating in such scenarios, which subsequently was/is based on subjective notions of what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. God' (the entity) however is apolitical. God (the entity) rules supreme over any and all earthly political systems; over and above any 'parental' rights; over and above what man might construe as 'right' or 'wrong'.
     
  6. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    All we can do is support behavior that is based upon seeing the Truth about things and doing what is necessary to live that light.
     
  7. Beast Mode

    Beast Mode New Member

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    What's a "live that light"?
     
  8. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    Ever done shrooms?
     
  9. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    That's a loaded question. Not only do you request perfect objectivity -- you request it for the entire human race?




    Of course not. We lack adequate information, even if we did have the processing power at our disposal to process an infinite stream of information; which, by the way, we do not.

    Still, an inability to achieve perfection should not deter us from seeking to assess our observations as objectively as is possible.
     
  10. AR4137

    AR4137 New Member

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    I realize this might be hard for some people to understand, but you can just ignore your personal feelings and opinions.

    Maybe I'm misinterpreting the OP. I didn't read through all the rest of the replies. Anyway, I was discussing stuff with some friends one night. One disapproved greatly of the thought of gay marriage, but saw no logical reason why it shouldn't be allowed, and considered himself a supporter even though he admitted to being homophobic.

    I generally think the same way too- not that I'm homophobic, that was just an example. But I prefer to make decisions based on reason and facts, even if my personal feelings disagree.

    Then again, I've met plenty of people who are apparently incapable of separating the two. I do think it shows a certain level of maturity (not necessarily intelligence, mind you) if you can set aside your own opinions and make a decision based on proven realities.

    Humanity as a whole is another story. From day 1 we're brought up in a certain way, and that ends up being the way we live/think/etc. for the rest of our lives. Even if tolerance and objectivity is encouraged, it can be hard for one to refrain from aligning themselves in the favor of whatever religion/culture/moral belief they associate themselves with.

    Individually, sure. It's possible, probably more common than you think. Collectively, it's more of a challenge.
     
  11. OLD PROFESSOR

    OLD PROFESSOR Member

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    NO WE CAN'T.

    Sorry. the answer was supposed to be NO. But rules won't allow an answer that short even when it is proper.
     
  12. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is about perfection.

    The problem with perfection is that the moment you reach what you thought it was it has turned into an entirely new thing.

    It is possible to be as objective as you possibly can be, absolutely.
     
  13. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    I think its a matter of thinking logically, honestly, with no involved emotion.
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    What is the absolute objective truth?
     
  15. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I am not requesting perfect objectivity, I am asking is absolute objectivity humanly possible? Perhaps you read a bit too much into the question.

    I argue that even with adequate information we would still lack absolute objectivity as it is impossible for the mind to be completely detached from personal feelings or opinions when assessing information.

    Nor have I claimed otherwise.
     
  16. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    No, you haven't. I never meant to imply that you did.

    I did think that asking the question in regard to "humanity", rather than to an individual human added unnecessary complication, though. Still, I don't believe that any human can be perfectly objective in every assessment that they make.
     
  17. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I see it more as an argument of imperfection and the impossible task of even achieving perfection (absolute objectivity). I do agree that it is possible to be as objective as we possibly can.
     
  18. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Is not logic only as good as its premise? IMO to be absolutely objective one would have to be devoid of any and all personal feelings and opinions. Do you think that is actually possible?
     
  19. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Opinions can be based on logic. So having an opinion based on the logic provided--isn't necessarily bias. But if opinion can't be changed---even if the logic is clear---that is another matter. A person is bias to that particular "opinion". I suppose due to a feeling of trust--which may go beyond logic.

    Personally, I don't think its possible to be totally unbias. I took journalism in college and wrote pieces I thought were nonbias---but upon critique from instructor--I realized my pieces were. I put in information that I thought relevant. Left out information I thought not relevant. It was an education past writing technique.
     
  20. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer New Member

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    I believe that the best that we can do is to attempt to be aware of our own prejudices and emotional responses to issues. It is often more comfortable for people to adhere to predetermined beliefs than to attempt to objectively assess a particular situation. There is a certain level of discomfort in admitting (even to yourself) that you don't already know everything. ;)
     
  21. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring our personal feelings and opinions does not mean that we are devoid of their influence. With that said I do believe that it is possible to be objective to the point where one can make a reasonable assessment.

    If it is possible, can you tell me your friends definition of homophobic?
     
  22. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think this kind of debate usually ends up going in circles. Absolute objectivity is not necessary for anything practical.

    Two people could argue all day about something being objectively (pick any subjective term) and never come to an agreement because you cant be objective about subjective values. So, why bother?

    Despite not being perfect objective observation is valuable. The more information a person has the more objective they can be on a subject. Identifying ones own biases, searching for contradictory information and evaluating it as unemotionally as possible is the most common way people try to be objective.

    Its never easy.

    Its almost impossible to be objective in a bitter argument where people are using emotionally loaded language. There is no use in trying to convince anyone of anything once they have become emotional about a subject. Being calm and being objective go hand in hand.
     
  23. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it.
     

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