Abbott in La La Land again

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by DominorVobis, Jul 10, 2014.

  1. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    What an absolute load of bull-crap Aussie. I thought better of you than to sprout this nonsense. As an employer, its easier for me; less paperwork for me, and cheaper for me, to actually hire a 457 visa, than an Australian worker. Yes. We have all heard the propaganda and seen "A current Affair" programs showing unemployed Australia surfing on beaches and shopping in malls - living the good life at tax payers expense. But what the people don't know is that TV programs like A Current Affair tape these shows on Saturday's and Sunday's, and then make out they are during the working week that these unemployed are having a good life.

    There are a small percentage of individuals trapped in the welfare rut, but that percentage is very small considering the whole number of unemployed, and biased TV shows and cruel politicians like to take advantage of the "small" number without showing all the facts - as we know for their own political agendas.

    How the hell can Abbott and Hockey be so cruel mean by blaming our unemployed Australian people for being unemployed, when they are allowing foreign 457 visa workers to come into Australia to compete with our unemployed, and take their jobs?

    This is similar to deliberately starving someone to death, and then blaming them for stealing a loaf of bread...

    Please explain how a country like Australia that always had an official unemployment rate of around 5% - 7% was short of workers, needed to bring in foreign 457 visa workers? I suppose the next thing someone will say is all those 5% and 7% unemployed were untrained and uneducated billy-goats. :roflol:
     
  2. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    yeah, sure foreign companies will financially invest in Australia, but only if they have Australian politicians support that they can bring over cheap foreign 457 visa workers, so they can by-pass paying Australians a competitive wage.
     
  3. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    If we want to see more of Australian unemployed humiliated and reduced to picking weeds our of gardens to claim welfare, because it makes scummy politicians think they are satisfied and skilled, then keep voting for the same scum-bag politicians, who have never done a hard days work in their lives. If scum-bag politicians think its so bloody easy and a total bludge being unemployed, then why don't they try living without money for 6 months or living on $400 per fortnight.

    Not to bad is it, scum-bag politicians forcing someone else to live on the knife's edge, but they live in the lap of luxury with their snouts in the tax payers troth.
     
  4. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    As an employer, you should know that over 7% of the battery hen mentality, entitlement without responsibility megatadia are unemployable. How long have we been cultivating the shallow end now, 40 odd yrs?
     
  5. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    Aussie, I don't know why you expend so much time and energy to show us you don't know what's going on around you .... because we already know that.

    Firstly, with nearly every vacancy, there are three types of applicants.

    1: People moving positions, gone are the days we start a job when we are 15 and retire from it at 65. Employers prefer them because of the prejudice against people on new start, you know what I mean, your attitude, you have it.
    2: People who are not eligible for the dole, usually have a partner already working. Employers prefer them because they feel they will be more stable. Partner has a job, they are less likely to move.
    3: Last but not least, the new start people, not dressed as well, hey the have been living on $350 per week, not experienced enough, not worked for a few months/years which just keeps getting longer.

    All that aside, there is not as many vacancies as their are REGISTERED unemployed, then there are the non registered unemployed, soon we will add those between 65 and 70 to the pool and a lot of disabled people.

    I am certain, that Abbott and his henchmen are trying to increase unemployment, which is why they are trying so hard not to pay them anything. My father, a 98 year old man who has never voted anything but National in his life, told me today that Abbott should be sent back to England, He is about as Australian as Yorkshire pudding.
     
  6. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I'm not completely convinced that the estimated claim of 7% is 100% accurate. From an unbiased employers perspective, I feel it could be exaggerated by a few percent to fulfil hidden agendas.

    We have done our own evaluations into the unemployment phenomenon over the past few years, and our research has identified that many fundamental mistakes are made, and inaccurate figures are being represented to the public about unemployment and the circumstances surrounding unemployment.

    I do agree that Australia has a small percentage problem within some low socio-economic towns and suburbs. Whereby, some individuals have developed generational welfare dependency that needs to be addresses, but it needs to be addressed by the correct mechanisms; not the wrong ones that will cause harm and distress.

    I am against working for the dole. My suggestion in the place for working for the dole has always been that unemployed people "learn for the dole" instead. They are required to attend a TAFE course or registered training course to receive their welfare benefit. I would propose that the unemployed individual complete the course of their choice, and then have to complete 20 hours of job placement. This would ensure that the unemployed individual on completion of the certificate or training course would have gained competent skills and knowledge in practical theory and hands-on experience. This would also be a benefit to multitude of businesses rather than just wealthy local Councils and religious organisations that currently get all the work for the dole candidates. Businesses then have the opportunity of seeing if these trainees are competent to hire as regular staff members, without having to go through all the legal process of hiring 'n' firing as they usually do.

    I expect a financial commission if this intellectual property is used. :smile:

    This would represent more teachers and trainers being employed, and our unemployed being educated with theory and genuine skills, rather than being used a fee slave labour to provide menial tasks by businesses like local Councils and religious organisations too "tight-fisted" to actually pay a proper salary.

    Did you know that work for the dole participants were forced to work for either local Councils or religious organisations? Both these organisations are fundamental wealthy, and could hire staff to fulfil duties, but under the work for the dole scheme, they can by-pass hiring staff and paying salaries, because they can get slave labour free of charge?

    The most humiliating and disturbing attributes of the work for the dole scheme for unemployed participants, is that, work for the dole falls under the umbrella of the social stigma called: "community Service." Community Service was implemented by our legal system as a punishment for criminal activity. So "why" are Australia's unemployed people being punished as criminals for being unemployed?

    For example: how would weeding a garden or packing food into a box seriously help an unemployed sales assistant; brick layer; dentist; retail manager; nurse, or office assistant gain the necessary skills to get back into employment? It simply doesn't, and every independent report to date indicates that. The Government has not released any reports to demonstrate that the work for the dole scheme helps unemployed individuals back into employment, or the percentage of unemployed individuals that have found employment due to being a work for the dole participant. Everything politicians have told us so far has been verbal diarrhea, with no supporting documented evidence or proof - and we all know what a politicians word is worth... :icon_pee:

    Business owners in the community, and within the fabric of our human and animal societies have a responsibility to not only make sure they themselves have a comfortable living, but they are also making a genuine effort to contribute back to that society, by allowing other individuals to have a comfortable living. There is a human symbiotic relationship between employer and employee that's been completely ignored and forgotten for too long. Without the employer there would be no employee's, and without the employee's there would no employers. We need each other, and there is no logical reason why someone always has to end up with the "short-end" of the stick all the time.

    culldav
     
  7. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I read a paper from the Australian Psychological Association (no I am not a member, nor am I a psychologist) which discussed the effects of unemployment on mental health. It was very interesting, But one thing that stood out was the author's delineation between "labour" and "work". What Abetz is on about is "labour", that is, makework for the people he reckons are dole bludgers. Work is what the rest of us do, we get money and esteem out of it.. We define ourselves by it. I have no time for the parasites either, but the parasites are not the people I see every day who are training to get work and who want work, not mindless labour.
     
  8. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    If Minister Abetz and the LNP believe that work for the dole recipients are skill enhanced and get self-esteem by the activities associated through work for the dole programs. Then I believe Minister Abetz and other LNP Ministers should be leading by example, and be the first to step-forward to participate in the work for the dole programs for a few months each for "their" salaries. It would be interesting to see at the end of the two months picking weeds out of gardens or packing food into boxes, if Minister Abetz feels his skills have been enhanced, and has gained any self-esteem, like he claims work for the dole participants get.

    I call on you Mr Abetz to be the first LNP Minister to step forward and offer your services for the work for the dole program that you recommend and approve, and force other Australians to participate in for their pay. If you recommend working for the dole, and believe its such a good idea for other Australians to participate in, then you won't mind participating in the scheme yourself. Surely Mr. Abetz, you wouldn't expect human being's to participate in a program or scheme you wouldn't be prepared to participate in yourself?
     
  9. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    The only parasites I see within our community are the ones who inhabit Local; State and Federal Government. These parasites bludge off our community more than any unemployed individual.
     
  10. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. My point was that this latest round of crap being peddled by Abbott is designed to distract and to scapegoat. Because the government is unable to govern it's gone into attack mode and it selects the weakest in society as its targets. And everyone joins in, well nearly everyone. Time for these nasty bastards to stop listening to billionaires for advice on policy and start working with the professionals. Asking Forrest about welfare, give me a bloody break.
     
  11. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    If you have an open mind, and look at the history of LNP politicians, everytime they talk about Australia's financial problems, or talk about wanting to return Australia's financial situation back into surplus; the first people they target and attack are the most vulnerable members of our society - welfare recipients.

    Abbott is spending our money on patrol boats, planes and other goodies like a drunken sailor, and then has his guard dog Ministers and media parrots telling the rest of the Australian people they have to tighten their belts and do it tough for the benefit of Australia. LOL

    Princess Abbott was awarded a scholarship, with the absent of any other applicants for that scholarship. It would seem Abbott being an individual of sound Christian beliefs, belives his "princess daughter" is entitled to sail in the boat of wealthy privilege entitlements, but every other young Australian person who doesn't have a daddy as a PM, is forced to do work for the dole programs picking weeds out of gradens and packing food in boxes.

    Very fair minded of you there Tony, and perfectly demonstrates "your" Christian attitude towards others not in "your" family.

    Doesn't take a genius to comprehend and understand that the LNP are the puppets of millionaire & billionaire company masters, and the ALP are the puppets of their Union masters. This vicious "merry-g-round" cycle has endured for nearly a Century, and the silly voters of Australia keep getting on the same ride every 3 years without fail.

    Australia had really become a very sad place to live. It reminds me of a poor family in serious financial trouble selling off their household furniture and possessions to survive.
     
  12. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    That`s a one sided, narrow view of a complex issue. Get back to me when you`ve been an employer, and paid for the slack, self entitled attitude of SOME workers in this country, out of your own hard earned assets. Then you may come to realise that all workers, unionists, welfare recipients, are not 100% perfect, and that there actually are issues that need to be dealt with. I`ve seen both sides of the fence.
     
  13. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    Good post. I`ll try to get back to you at length when time permits. This issue is complex, there is no single answer to all circumstances. Therefore, no single initiative should be criticised for not supplying universal success. Work for the dole can`t transform a region of high unemployment into one of high unemployment. Neither can it solve a myriad of other causes of unemployment, but the idea has some merit. I`ll try to get back to this later.
     
  14. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    Once again arrogance is all you have. My very good friend, I have owned 3 businesses. So take your issues with the unemployed somewhere else, there are 10s of thousands of genuinely sincere hard working and desperate to find work. But their biggest hurdle in their lives are tiny minded grubs who think they are so superior they think that they have all the answers.

    I'll get back to you if one comes on here to spew their ill informed hatred.
     
  15. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Instead of whinging & whining all the time. Write to your local MP's and ask them why politicians are allowing ten's of thousands of foreign 457 visa workers into Australia that are taking jobs from these genuine; sincere hard working Australians. Or do you consider all the foreign 457 visa workers are "more" skilled than these genuine, sincere and hard working unemployed Australians?
     
  16. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    This was a basic overview, and it was an attempt to demonstrate that for decades, Australian politicians have been ignoring and abandoned our unemployed as useless and worthless nobodies, instead of turning them into valuable productive members of our society through training and education, that is not complicated or expensive to achieve.

    It would seem our elected representatives would prefer to spend tax payers money on overseeing administrative procedures to import foreign cheap human labour, rather than spending that money on developing training and education for own unemployed citizens to make them psychologically and physically productive members of our community.

    In my full proposal; there is a win,win, win for Australia. Our unemployed get theory and practical skills, and education and training in a variety of industries - not just local councils and charity organisations. More businesses have the opportunity to worker exposure and to evaluate a trainee's performances from their 25 hours work experience, and perhaps, the employer is able to offer them "real" employment after the job-placement has been completed.

    Educating and training our own unemployed citizens in areas that need staff, would also limit our need to bring in foreign 457 visa workers that directly compete with them for Australian jobs.

    I'm not suggesting this model will eliminate our dependency on professionally skilled 457 visa workers completely, but it should eliminate our need for general workers in basic areas of employment that is currently being supplied by unskilled/semi-skilled 457 visa workers.
     
  17. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    You couldn`t have employed too many people if you didn`t notice a sub standard work ethic in this country. Either that, or you missed a lot that went on in your business.

    - - - Updated - - -

    CD, 457 visa workers, by law, have to be paid local award rates.
     
  18. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    We both know there are "loop-holes" in every system, and paying 457's incorrect entitlements is just one loop-hole based on a multitude of factors and circumstances.

    We both know the system is rife with rogue Foreign employers who misuse the program by bring in temporary labour when local workers are available, to bring in family members from their countries for jobs that don't exist, or to exploit vulnerable temporary workers that don't understand the English language or their work rights in our country.

    I believe in April 2013, Fair Work Inspectors closed down a Chinese building company on the Gold Coast for ignoring the legal working rights of their 457 workers. The Inspectors discovered that the workers were being paid 1/3 of the basic Australian wage. They were also paying rent to their Chinese employer, who owned the properties; whereby, 30 of them were living in each home - 10 per bedroom, in squalid conditions.

    As an Australian employer and member of our community, I would prefer to employee an unemployed Australian who has/is undertaking a TAFE course, and discovered, thanks to the opportunity through education and training, he/she has genuine natural talent, rather than employing a foreign 457 visa workers.

    I have no animosity towards 457 visa workers, but Australian tax payers and our Australian community cannot afford to keep giving our money away to educate and train foreign people, while our own citizens (especially our unemployed citizens) are being intellectually left behind, to the degree, that their psychological and physical abilities and usefulness is compared to a punishment of "Community Service" just for being unemployed.

    The Australian people in general need to wake-up and realise we should not be jumping on the politicians and media "band-wagon" by demonising our unemployed people for unfortunate situations and circumstances that anyone of us could find ourselves in. Especially situations and circumstance of unemployment issues that politicians have and are directly creating by the incompetent policies they make that never effect any of them or their families, but always has drastic effects on everyone else in the community.

    Educating our unemployed is going to create a prosperous country; not turning them into mindless zombies picking weeds out of gardens and packing food into boxes.


    P.S I have discovered in my business & personal experience, that 99% of the sub-standard work you refer too, either comes form self-employed tradies, managers and CEO's, who think the light shines out of their arse.
     
  19. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    As you said, 457 visa workers are legally entitled to award wages. I personally, intensely dislike the 457 visa arrangement, but I`m not blind to the fact that there are those in our community, who for varying reasons, have not been indoctrinated with a realistic work ethic.
     
  20. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    What is a realistic work ethic in Australia, and what is a realistic work ethic in other countries?

    Unrealistic work ethics. I will give three quick exapmles:

    1) Australian politicians
    2) Alan Joyce - Qantas
    2) Sol Trujillo - Telstra

    The scale of incompetence from the above candidates makes an office worker taking a "sickie" look miniscule in comparison.
     
  21. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    I dislike 457 visas as much as anything.I go and see my local mp, can't be sure she will read my letters but I can be damn sure she will listen.
     
  22. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    I'm very aware of our poor work ethic and welfare mentality of a significant proportion of the unemployed.

    But to just blanket them all under one label as you do is significantly worse by far for the good of our nation than is the worst of the bludgers you hate so much.

    They may even be contributing more than you are!
     
  23. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I have a laugh to myself when I hear or read people saying that Australia has a certain welfare mentality or poor work ethic, and then they immediately point the finger at our unemployed people, or our general employee's making less than $100K.

    Politicians love to deflect bad unpopular policies, or something they are doing underhandedly, and the best way to disguise these unpopular policies and underhanded events is to send their media attack dogs onto the most vulnerable members of our society - our unemployed or low socio-economic workers.

    Predictably, they will arrange for that "bush-pig" Tracy Grimshaw from A Current Affair to do a "beat-up" biased story on how bad and disrespectful unemployed people are on welfare benefits, or how lazy low socio-economic worker are. A Current Affair will cruise around all day until they find one "crack addict" stoned off his brain to interview about unemployment benefits. Then, that stoned "crack addicts" mentality towards unemployment and wefare benefits is suppose to represent the mentality of every other unemployed individual. If that is not biased enough, they then film during a weekend, but don't inform their viewers that the segment was filmed during a weekend, when people are naturally at the beach or doing shopping. To make matters worse they will spy on doctors to catch low socio-economic people taking unnecessary time off work - poor work ethics. They catch one doctor writting a "sick leave certificate" and present 10 seconds of film pretending the doctor never even examined the patient properly before writting the certificate.

    We are all guilty of taking the odd sickie now and then, but for politicians to deliberately demonise a group within our community with the help of certain media, for their own personal or political agenda's, should never be allowed, accepted or tolerated.
     

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