Prostitution in the abstract: What is the harm?

How so?

ie: if a girl pays me 50bucks to give me BJ - am I being exploited? I think not

 

I think those who work higher up the chain (high class hookers) should have to freedom to look after their own health, whilst the lower classes (ie: street workers) should be told what to do by the nanny state. (sarcasm intended)

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Bill should have worn a condom - that's the issue here, not the profession of the woman.

 

The problem is that you have street pimps exploiting and victimizing young girls and drug addicted women. How would the underground market be eliminated by legalization?

 

I never suggested that Bill was smart. But the woman is the pro here. If Bill was too dumb to use protection, the woman should insist, not just to protect Bill, but herself and her next clients.

 

It wouldn't , but why should it - men want to have sex with women - who are you to say they can't?

And let the drug addicts give up their habits instead.

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The use of the word 'should' is meaningless in an argument about social reality.

Let the woman or man do as they will, then the consequences shall follow.

 

You should have this tatooed on your forehead so decent women can see where you're coming from right quick.

 

OK Folks raise your hands and post, who here is OK with their daughter being a prostitute?

 

Me - let her do as she wishes, even though I would prefer her to be a top lawyer.

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Can you define 'decent' woman anyway.

And why is it any different, paying a man or woman for sex, unless of course, you do not believe in gender equality.

 

Please re-read the OP carefully and recall that the title of this thread is Prostitution in the Abstract.​ Most-important: CONSENTING ADULTS.

 

And of course, someone HAS the right to allow themselves to be exploited.

If a woman wants 20 bucks to buy ice, and can suck a dick for it, then it's up to her.

 

Because most sex isn't prostitution, and STDs get transmitted by sex, not by prostitution.
So getting drunk, and getting laid is how you get clap, or AIDs for that matter.
If everyone who was going to engage in sex was tested, STDs could be wiped out in a few weeks.

 

Obviously you're gonna have to find out the hard way, or not at all.

 

I disagree. It tends to be the more misogynistic men that go to prostitutes anyway. There are enough tragic cases of prostitutes that are bashed and murdered by their clients. SOME men with 'unsatisfied sexual urges' already resent women... which may give rise to this abuse of prostitutes. Prostitution is dangerous. God knows what loony turns up as a client.

I disagree and contend that those with misogynistic tendencies are more likely to go to prostitutes where the prostitute faces greater potential for abuse / or murder.

I'm fine to be proved wrong - that shy, retiring men are more likely to go to prostitutes. But I doubt it.

 

The harm in it being legal is that it uses the human body (even a willing one) as a product. The list of human rights abuses that goes with legal prostitution is too large to even bother with.

The harm with it being illegal is that the bad parts of it being legal are concentrated down into the very worst. Illegal prostitution will have much more of the bad elements in it because the people profiting from it are overt and unashamed criminals. The list of problems this creates is also too long to bother with.

 

The main thing to consider is that in countries with more relaxed sex laws, sexual violent crime is much lower. Is this de facto proof ? No but its a good place to start.

Your argument about cases of prostitutes bashed and murdered is not really an argument for much. I could argue that this is "caused" by the fact that prostitution is illegal. Look at the crime associated with Alcohol during prohibition. This crime did not exist to any significant degree prior to prohibition and it disappeared pretty much after prohibition ended.

We would need to compare the rates of abuse in first world counties where prostitution is legal verses where it is not. Life is "dangerous", driving a car is one of the most dangerous things a person can do. Of course prostitution can be dangerous but keeping it illegal makes it far more dangerous.

The second thing I would mention is that, from your avatar, you appear to be a woman. I had 3 older sisters growing up and have always had loads of women friends.

When I want advice on the psyche of a woman ... I ask a woman.

It is the attitude of the society towards sex at least in part that creates misogyny.

You claim that those with misogynistic tendencies are more likely to go to prostitutes. This may be true. How does this relate to my claim that misogyny is decreased by prostitution ?

If a dude is already a misogynist, him going to a prostitute is not in general going to increase these feelings. It may however decrease these feelings by him being able to satisfy his sexual urges.

Unsatisfied sexual urges are not the only cause of misogyny however often this is the cause and always these urges, if gone unsatisfied will increase misogynistic feelings.

I am not sure whether or not shy men are more likely to go to a prostitute but what does this have to do with anything? Men of all types go to prostitutes and their reasoning is different.

At the end of the day it is not my right to tell two consenting adults that they can not exchange money for sex. Heck .. this is normalized within our society.

Marriage is a form of "exchanging money for sex" It is a binding contract.

I'm sure you have heard the adage "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free" What exactly is being expressed here ? Don't give sex unless you get something for it.

You almost never hear a many saying such things... a man just wants sex. He does not expect to get paid for it in most cases. A woman on the other hand ... way more often then a man expects something in return for sex.

Being a man and a student of human nature, psychology and sociology I have at least some knowledge of the psyche of men.

Take a fellow that "was not good with women" and a bit of a social outcast, combine this with a strong societal or religious belief in authority (the fellow would never go to a prostitute to relieve is sexual urges either because he would not do anything illegal or due to some religious stigma) ... have these problems with women continue through his twenties. Over time that sexual energy builds up and needs to vent.

This would be a typical profile of a rapist who kills his victims.

People are messed up for a wide variety of reasons. Certainly this is not the only cause of misogynistic murderers .... but it is one cause.

Legalizing prostitution will not eliminate all wingnut's that rape and kill women, but it will eliminate some.

I get the problem that many women have with Prostitution. Prostitution devalues sex. Since to a woman sex is often a commodity she does not want to see this commodity devalued.

As far as the fellow described above however, the easier sex is to obtain (and devaluing sex means he may not have to go to a prostitute) the less likely the fellow is to have his sexual urges unsatisfied (and his self image damaged).

A similar phenomenon can be noticed in localities where there is a high female to male population. The increased competition for men devalues sex. Sex is easier to get and the price the average Joe has to pay to get sex is decreased as are the criteria such as physical attributes and so on.

Unsatisfied sexual urges in men are a dangerous thing.

 

Though I disagree with your premise, can you explain how this is harmful as you claim? Remember, we are talking about consenting adults here. I'd like you to illustrate real, demonstrable harm please.

In the abstract, again, the harm in my view is the diminution of liberty and the involuntary cession of personal autonomy to the government nanny.

 

You sound like a fem to me - so are you prepared to put your money where your mouth is;

will you offer up sex in order to save the working girls? No, I thought not

 

so, sex workers are now 'unashamed criminals' - nice

 

Unless the state grants free or paid sex for those who want it, there will always be prostitution... heck we even have a boom of baby prostitutes in these last years, 13-14 teenagers girls who sell their virginity for money to adult men, and nobody is forcing them because they are often sons of average people. One must be blind to not see the trend of things...

 

Your post is devoid of making any sense.

 

I wouldn't want any woman in my circle of friends or family to be a prostitute. The stigma on its own is awful enough. And because I wouldn't want it for any woman I know, I wouldn't wish it on any woman I didn't know either. But I am not pushing or forcing a thing. Just stating what I feel.

Imagine being a prostitute... you're out with your brother at a party and time for introductions.
Brother: "Hi, this is my sister, she's a prostitute." Unlikely he'd introduce her that way... because of 'stigma'. S T I G M A.

All very well for the mostly male posters here to say, 'no worries, prostitution is fine' - but remember, you're on the 'being serviced' end. Your job title isn't 'prostitute'. You just go to one then go off to your non-stigmatised job. Again, I'm not pushing or forcing a thing. But as a woman, if I came in touch with any woman thinking of prostitution, I'd encourage her to be a lawyer or banker or anything in the mainstream line of work. Also, the danger and risk aspect of prostitution by way of loony clients and psycho pimps is incredibly worrying.

 

Prostitutes have been targets of violence and murder all through time, the same as women in all walks of life can be targetted for violence and murder, but prostitutes carry the greater risk. Misogynists who are perverted / aberrated about women and sex do target prostitutes. Legality / illegality of prostitution is irrelevent to the type of misogynist driven to abuse women.

Good plan.

The concept of a misogynist going to a prostitute triggers alarm bells. God help the prostitute. Your angle is to concentrate on the man being serviced by a prostitute and feeling better, while my concern is the affect the misogynist has on the prostitute... will she be hurt, bashed or killed?

True, but we don't see what's happening underneath. Man goes to prostitute, doesn't know if she was sold into it, if she has a severe drug dependency, if she's 12 not 18, or even if she hates herself and struggles horrendously with what she does. We don't know. But from the mans side of it - he gets serviced. Too bad if the prostitute has heroin addiction or is a minor or homeless. SAD.

The women in my circle have integrity and would never bargain away sex in such a disingenuous way.

Not that it devalues sex. It devalues the woman. Prostitution carries stigma.

 

Illegal ones. Yep.

Read much?

 

You bring up an interesting point regarding stigmatization. Practitioners of the abomination of hypocrisy don't seem to have any problem. Even the right seems to have more problems with human sexuality in modern times, than they do with a timeless, abomination of hypocrisy, even with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.

Did you know we could ameliorate the underlying Cause of prostitution, merely by being moral enough to bear True witness instead of indulging the moral turpitude of bearing False witness to our own laws regarding the concept of employment at will and unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis.

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I think unabashed drug workers working for the public sector are not any better. Our federal government is the largest purchaser of Drugs in the world. Our drug war is "illegal" without any delegated social Power to Prohibit forms of Commerce among the several States. We have a Commerce Clause, not a drug war clause.

 

I agree but this does not much related to the legality or illegality of the profession. Many professions and activities carry a higher risk factor.

I am not sure whether are not you are trying to make the "higher risk" argument as a basis for making something illegal so I will leave it at that.

Misogyny is bad. My argument was that prostitution decreases misogyny in society as a whole.

In most cases the man fairly quickly knows the state of mind of a prostitute and if she is a heroin addict. People are going to do what people are going to do for all kinds of reasons. Legalization would afford greater protection for women by taking it out of the shadows.

Not everyone who drinks gets behind the wheel. Not every prostitute is a drug addicted slave.

I did not state that all woman have an expectation of something in return for sex ( monetary or emotional). The fact of the matter is that there is still a societal norm "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free" and many women do have an expectation of something in return for sex.

Things are changing but we are not there yet.

So does working at McDonalds. Sex is devalued for sure. The woman is only devalued if she mentions her profession to others. If she does not want to be devalued in the eyes of someone else then she can keep her Job a secret. It is not like men are running around claiming "Ohhh there is the prostitute that I go to on a regular basis"

In higher end prostitution the woman is more like a mistress to a select few men. In these cases the woman has far more control than the man. One of the points in favor of legalization is that it gives more control to the woman.