GERMANY: "The crisis in eastern Ukraine is "slipping out of control" and needs to be

The rockets that send first satellite and human into orbit were build from germans. Don´t brag with things you did not do yourself. I visited your country not that long ago and what i saw there was (*)(*)(*)(*).

 

It is not true that the first rockets to send a sattelite into space were built by Germans. If it was so, why not Americans or Germans went first to space?
Of course, the calculations for the first rockets were based on the developments done initially in Germany, but this is always like that in science and technology- you build something new on the basis of what has been done before.
As for your trip to Russia it looks like you see everywhere only (*)(*)(*)(*) and is not able to see some nice things. I live in Berlin and I see (*)(*)(*)(*) every time when I go to Kreuzberg. Does it mean, that I can say that Germany is terribly dirty country? Your statement that Russia has no history and culture based on one trip to Russia is a pure nonsense.

 

After WW II you captured german scientists. many were friends and colleagues of Wernher von Braun. Your forced them to cooperate or to murder their children.

I was in St. Petersburg and did not like it there. People are rude. Hotel claimed to be 4 star but had bad staff and food.

Face reality, russia wants the EU as enemy. How could we trust russia after all this now? Russia is not a trustworthy partner.

 

we will see, for how long . do you think Rashka can fight Ukrainian state/EU for years, under sanctions and totally isolated ?

- - - Updated - - -

+1...........

 

Novorussia is on offensive militarily. Putin is on peace offensive. This is not from Kremlin, like some continue to insist. This is in MSNBC (America) news:
http://news.msn.com/world/putin-to-ukraine-begin-immediate-talks-on-east

 

You may as well just give up, vis. You can fight ignorance with education, but there is no good way to fight stupidity. Our chief opponent, MarkusS, has decided that Russia has no culture, no history, and nothing of redeeming value. It could be explained to him that as Rome disintegrated and fell, the center of European civilization was in the Byzantine Empire (the "Eastern" Rome), along with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Italy was devolving into what it would be for hundreds of years in the Dark Ages -- a warring collection of city-states which fought with each other almost constantly. Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire brought some stability, but everything was descending into the Dark Ages. We see the vicious intrigues that inspired Machiavelli's admonitions in "The Prince", and in the conduct of the de' Medici's, whose influence remained strong in Italy until the middle of the 18th Century.

Meanwhile, Constantinople flourished during Russia's formative stages, with great centers in Kiev (yes, Kiev!) and from there to "Muscovy" (Moscow, mostly). Parenthetically, one wonders how anyone, including MarcusS, would have visited St. Petersburg and not have appreciated the beauty and endurance of the architecture there, if nothing else.... True, Constantinople fell in 1453, but by then Russia was already independent and very well-established.

It is interesting to me that MarcusS is the only German I know of who hates Russians and everything about Russia. I have asked him several times if he does not see how a mutually-beneficial relationship can be of great benefit to GERMANY, and I've pointed out, factually, that the United States has been far more of a "conqueror" of Germany than Russia ever was. The Russians fought back against the Wehrmacht and threw it out of Russia after THEY were invaded, and it cost them millions of lives in the process. But we Americans danced right into Germany in spring of 1945 after having a fairly easy time of it after D-Day in 1944. We set up our domination of all of West Germany very quickly, and WE HAVE HAD AMERICAN MILITARY IN GERMANY EVER SINCE! But poor, old MarkusS is frightened that the Russians are going to come in and "conquer" Germany? If I may invent a word, that idea is "Über-Quatsch"!

It was always the Germans who threatened and made war on the Russians! This was true in World War I, and it was also true in World War II. Prior to the liberation of Eastern Europe from the Nazis, I cannot think of a time when Russians invaded Germany... can anyone?! But I'm sure that MarkusS will have plenty of reasons why everyone in Europe should be crapping their pants with anxiety about Russia taking everything over, with Russian soldiers cooling their bare feet in the Atlantic Ocean after the big "conquest". Unglaublich schwachsinnig!

 

You are implying that the Ukraine is better today from an honesty in government standpoint. But, its been both corrupt and ineffective. Clearly, the largely Russian area in the east is disaffected and unhappy. Why shouldn't those people have the right of self determination for their future?

Comparing Russia to Nazi Germany is way off the mark. You may recall that Germany in the late 30's attacked with massive force. Russia's response has been measured.

In any event, the west has nothing good to offer, and everything to lose by getting involved in this rather inter-family dispute.

 

Putin appears to be tired of the western kindergarten games. I would say Porko better man up or it is game over for him and the US is not going to protect him from his own stupidity if it means exposing their roll completely in this whole catastrophe.
"President Vladimir Putin today dramatically raised the stakes in the Ukraine conflict by calling for the first time for statehood to be considered for the restive east of the former Soviet state.



"We need to immediately begin substantive talks... on questions of the political organisation of society and statehood for southeastern Ukraine with the goal of protecting the lawful interests of the people who live there," Putin was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies on a TV show broadcast in the far east of the country.



Russia has previously only called for greater rights under a decentralised federal system to be accorded to the eastern regions of Ukraine, where predominantly Russian-speakers live.

And as The Washington Post reports,


Putin spoke of the need to end hostilities before winter and criticized European leaders for supporting Ukraine, in remarks made during a television interview first broadcast in Russia's Far East and reported from Vladivostok by Russian news agencies. The interview was to be broadcast in Moscow seven hours later.

Putin has said repeatedly that he does not favor the breakup of Ukraine — though Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine in March — but only greater autonomy for the east. The word "statehood" suggests more than that, and if it reflects a major shift in Kremlin policy, it would be a direct challenge not only to Kev but also to Western European nations and the United States, which have been trying to force Moscow to back down.



...



"These are the inclusive talks that should determine the relationship with the eastern regions, that is, negotiations inside Ukraine on the internal Ukrainian order with respect for the interests of the country's eastern regions, the interests of Novorossiya," Peskov told reporters,"

 

post, is a pure Kremlin - trolling , 1938: "Hitler is on peace offensive"....

 

The funny thing is that if Hitler hadn't broken the 1939 agreement, the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact, made between von Ribbentrop and Molotov in 1939, it is very possible that Germany and Russia would have both had a very prosperous, mutually-beneficial relationship. Hitler would have gone on to defeat Britain with aerial bombing and submarine interdiction, and there would have been no war on the "Eastern Front". And there very probably would have been no war with America, either. There would have been no need for it, and 460,000 Americans who died in the damn war would never have been killed!

No one was more surprised than Joseph Stalin when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union. He had thought of Hitler as being a German version of himself! He would have needed to be watched carefully, and Stalin knew that he would always have to keep a large contingent of military on their common border, but, all other things being equal, Germany and the Soviet Union could have been very, very good for each other.

They still could be! Today everything is different, and yet, with regard to the potential for mutual benefit, remarkably the same. Germany doesn't NEED the United States to tell it what to do anymore. The only fears that Germany has today are those being whispered in German ears about how Putin is going to invade and "conquer" all of Europe! These fears are constantly spread by a United States that has had an occupying military force in Germany since May 1945! By contrast, there has not been a single Russian soldier anywhere in Germany for twenty years!

I would simply ask 21st-Century Germans to think about this: Who does what for YOU?! How much natural gas does the U. S. ship to you? How important are your trade relations with the U. S.? How important are your trade relations with the Russian Federation? Where are your computers built? China? Not the U. S.? Where does your food come from? The United States? Hell, American beef isn't even considered to be fit for human consumption in Germany!

You need the Obama Administration for... what?! To protect you from the Russians? Is that what you believe in the depths of your intellectual, well-educated German minds?! BULL****! And, no, I'm not telling you to put blind trust in Putin or any other foreigner -- but be honest with yourselves about what is in Germany's best interests, and, what is not....

 

Hitler and broke many other pack and agreements , new about "mutually-beneficial relationship.":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy

 

This is just reporting on what Putin said. We all know the things he said, but no one except his supporters believe him. He solidified his support with Russian nationalists when he took back Crimea in an obvious panic, but blew his credibility with everybody else in the world. It's literally incredible to believe all the protesters that showed up throughout east and south Ukraine just happened to spontaneously unfurl huge Russian flags around the same time, and then later started to call themselves "New Russia", a term going back to Imperialist times. If Putin didn't endorse this it must be incredibly bad luck for him, and it's a pity he didn't have way to tell them to quit making Russia look guilty as hell.

 

All this happened around the same time the forum got invaded by loads of pro Putin English speaking posters

Funny that ?

 

Сommon, Werner von Braun emigrated to US after war and was involved in Space programme there, nevertheless Americans were behind Soviet Union in launching rockets. So your arguments about his friends etc look childish. Russia wants EU as enemy? No. I think that US wants that EU and Russia were enemies. This is the reality.

 

Ukraine can suck on it. Just as the retreating Iraqi's deserved to be slaughtered by ISIS for being cowards the Ukranian's deserve what they get because the sold their best equipment to line their pockets. I am actually rooting for Putin in this case because maybe after Europe sees what has happened to them they will take their militaries more seriously.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...es-leadership-swapped-best-military/?page=all

The woeful state of Ukraine’s military can be blamed on corruption, Kiev’s shaky commitment to national defense and a policy of selling the best weapons to gain cold hard cash, analysts say.

The shortfall is surprising given that Ukraine’s large defense industrial complex produces tanks, anti-armor weapons, radars and spare parts.

“They’ve been doing it to themselves,” said Olga Oliker, a national security policy analyst at the Rand Corp. “It’s a corrupt, broken system. And they’re not putting money or resources into it. Things have been getting siphoned off.”

 

Even Slovakia is tired of Washington and their puppets warmongering and provocation.
"Slovakia says it may veto new EU sanctions against Russia
August 31, 6:10 UTC+4

BRUSSELS, August 31 /ITAR-TASS/. Slovakia said it might veto new EU sanctions against Russia, Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico said after the EU summit on Sunday.

“I believe that the sanctions will become senseless and counter-productive. Slovakia may use its right of veto,” Fico said, explaining Slovakia would use its right of veto if it decided that the new anti-Russian sanctions would undermine its economic growth.

The Slovak prime minister said there was no point in imposing new sanctions until the EU knew the results of the previously adopted penalties.

In July, the European Union imposed economic sanctions against Russia over it policy in eastern Ukraine. They include a ban on conclusion of military contracts; restrictions on acquisition of some new technologies, equipment and materials for its oil sector as well as some restrictions on banking services.

Maja Kocijanic, a spokeswoman for the EU high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, said last Friday that the EU Commission was still to analyze the consequences of the EU-imposed anti-Russian sanctions.

- - - Updated - - -

Shhhhh you just rest and we will call you when there is a subject that is more on your level. Poor little Fräulein.

 

Poroshenko believes and obeys his masters in EU. He will be removed from power this year.

 

Right, the Russian military invasion is all just a hoax and lie by the EU. Poroshenko couldn't possibly believe this from what he's seen in his own country. It must have been the West that prevented many Ukrainian citizens in the east from partipating in the elections. Meanwhile, China is trying to figure out a way to blame the Dalai Lama and FLG for all this.

 

It seems to me that the situation is actually under control, just under the control of the Russians. They are providing enough support to ensure the separatists win the battles with Ukraine forces.

It is just a matter of how much territory is wanted and how many battles have to be won.

 

Which invasion are you referring to since they have claimed 6 and all debunked after required proof is asked for. They even claimed to have wiped out 26 military trucks in the humanitarian convoy and made themselves look completely foolish when they could provide no debris from this victory.

 

Porko just got more US funding to continue the murdering of his citizens but will he use it for murder or to upgrade his chocolate factory. Who knows.
http://en.ce.cn/main/latest/201408/30/t20140830_3454339.shtml
"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) on Friday announced a disbursement of 1.4 billion U.S. dollars to crisis-torn Ukraine, but warned that the program remains highly challenging and continues to hinge on the development of the conflict.

The new funding was approved after the IMF's Executive Board, its decision-making body, completed the first review of Ukraine's performance under an economic program. That brings the total disbursements to about 4.51 billion U.S. dollars.

"Overall, economic policies have generally been implemented as agreed in the program, as the Ukrainian authorities have persisted in taking difficult measures despite the volatile political situation," the world lender said in a statement.

"However, the conflict in the eastern part of the country is taking its toll on the economy and society, and compensatory measures will be critical to achieve key program targets agreed for 2014 and beyond," noted the statement.

It stressed that the program "remains highly challenging and continues to hinge crucially on the assumption that the conflict will subside in the coming months."

In April, the IMF approved 16.67 billion U.S. dollars of credit line as part of a 27-billion-dollars international rescue package to support the Ukrainian government's economic program, which aims to restore macroeconomic stability, strengthen economic governance and transparency, and launch sound and sustainable economic growth while protecting the vulnerable groups.........."

 

Interesting! Certainly, the Prime Minister of Hungary does not see benefit in the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia:
http://www.euronews.com/2014/08/15/...-more-harm-than-good-says-hungary-s-pm-orban/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-ukraine-crisis-sanctions-hungary-idUSKBN0GF0ES20140815

Hint: the reality of Europe, seen through European eyes, by European people, who live, work, laugh, and cry with each other IN EUROPE, is rather different from the perception of Europe that our wonderous President Golf Club sees from the seat of his golf cart....

While the spectre of two nations that until fairly recently were fellow countrymen is tragic, the wise thing would be for Russia and Ukraine to settle their differences between themselves. They were in the same country for decades, and they speak the same language. And, until the International Monetary Fund and other Western banker interests began their campaign of destabilization and lawlessness against the legitimate Ukrainian government, Ukraine and Russia were putting together a strong, secure, and very mutually-beneficial economy based on energy. Ukraine and Russia may still be able to achieve a peaceful, prosperous relationship, but probably not until the foreigners, including the IMF and the central bankers (the "oligarchs" of the West) are told to get out and STAY out of Ukraine!

I still say that the key to finding peace, prosperity, and true independence -- for ALL of Europe -- is in the hands of the Germans! Who does both Poroshenko and Putin go to have talks with to air grievances and propose strategies for solutions? ANGELA MERKEL! They don't fly to Washington D. C. to see President Golf Ball -- no! They don't fly to London to sit down with Mr Cameron -- no! They go to talk with the Germans!

Perhaps what the bankers, the IMF, and their stooge-puppet, Obama, want to see least of all is a peaceful, prosperous Europe that tells the United States to leave them alone! The Germans (speaking for themselves and their Western European colleagues), and the Russian Federation (loosely representing Eastern European interests) can develop economically sound, mutually-beneficial strategies and agreements that everyone in ALL of Europe can be happy with. But this will only happen after the Germans tell the Americans, "Thank you for getting rid of Hitler. Today, more than 69 years later, we Europeans are quite capable of running our own countries, mapping out our own foreign policies, and doing what is best for ourselves."

Considering that we Americans can't even stop the invasion of our own country by hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens from all over our own Western Hemisphere, it would be a European statement that we should take to heart!

 

It might be to late for Ukraines people as they have already been sold out to the western banking cartel.
One needs look no further than Greece to see how this story ends.
"In April, the IMF approved 16.67 billion U.S. dollars of credit line as part of a 27-billion-dollars international rescue package to support the Ukrainian government's economic program"
Ukraines GDP was only about 80 bill. before they blew up the manufacturing sections of the country. It will probably come in at 30-40 bill for 2014.

 

ernher von Braun was the godfather of space. He invented the V2, the Mercury and gemini program and the famous Saturn V that brought man on the moon. His last achievement was the space shuttle. The americans got von Braun himself. The russians captured his assistants and his plans. In the end it turned out to be better to have von Braun, since the russian space program finally failed, while von Braun got one triumph after the next.

And reality is that russia plans an attack against EU land, Lativa and Estonia. Russias entire politics are aimed against EU interests. And the ultimate goal for russia is to attack europe and make it a colony, transform it into a hellhole and enslave all europeans. With all respect but russia shows no trustworthy behavior. It is best we cut all relations down to zero and build heavy defense at our eastern boarders, including the rocket defense system.

 

lies, they are fighting Ukrainian state a week already . 10-14 000 of them
killed or missing Russian solderers in Ukraine , if you need more information soldat@tvrain.ru.
http://tvrain.ru/soldat/