"More people have been killed in the name of God than any other reason"

It was only a matter of time before the straw men came out to play.

 

I think the reason this thought prevails for many is that for example in my life time (born 1965) it seems like most of the wars have had a religious connection and are often framed in a religious context. I believe you are right when we look back through history that most wars were not religious. I would say that in the 20th century most who were killed in wars were killed in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam... none of which were religious wars.

 

I didn't see this because you didn't quote me but no I'm not saying there is no such thing as political dogma. A state religion is still a religion. As I said, Stalinsim wasn't effective because of a lack of religion, it was because it behaved to closely to one.

 

I think you nailed it.

 

Theists have killed way more in the name of God then people have killed in the name of denying God

that doesn't even count the number killed by theists and Atheists alike for greedy reasons other then religion

.

 

What percentage of people on this planet in every era were religious compared to non-religious?

Religion doesn't have to cause every conflict or be responsible for every death to show itself as immoral or to prove it's unworthiness. It's proven quite convincingly that religion or that being religious does nothing to aid in our morality.

 

Stalinism wasn't effective...period. No more so than Nazism. Both short lived in the overall scheme of things.

 

I meant it's ability to cause harm, however short lived it was.

 

All I see is a white space where that link should be.

I don't understand what is going on.

 

If the math is wrong, yes. If it's not, then no it's not the same thing. If the claim is that religion has killed more people then any other reason, it's not including just wars. It's including everything as well. Me killing someone for insulting my religion in a bar, would count just as much as any Jihad or Crusade.

 

yes, but my understanding is that neighborly quarrels are usually over property disputes. Even during zealous times, it seems pretty rare that neighbors were actually killed for having different religious views and whatnot.

 

Now that was an intelligent response. Did you wish to explain what you think the straw man is or do you just not have material to respond to my post ?

 

Hmmm. That is weird. Well here's the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

 

here are some interesting takes, http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/religion-wars-conflict. They're opinions spiced with some insights

 

Well then define a religious killing. If religion had a role in it, couldn't we say that it was a religious killing?

 

I think that's a little much. If a bank robbery was a little bit more ornery because his Big Mac wasn't sitting well in his stomach, would we call that a "Big Mac killing"? No, even if something plays a small role, we don't include it. We might as well call it a butterfly killing (referring of course to the butterfly effect).

No, we look at the primary motivator or cause. But even with that extremely loose attachment you may prefer, the results would still be the same.

 

You make it sound like it's black and white. That their is one primary cause and then a bunch of secondary ones. The problem is that this is more of a grey area, with all sorts of reasons playing a part in different portions. So even if the "smoking gun" isn't religion, if it's still a primary cause, it could still be considered a religious killing because of how much it plays into a person's psyche.

 

You asked: If religion had a role in it, couldn't we say that it was a religious killing? I counter: If that, then if a Big Mac had a role in it, any role at all, couldn't we say that it was a Big Mac killing?

The level of the role matters. That's not being black and white.

The goal posts are moving so quickly here I'm getting dizzy.

 

Then I apologize, I'm tired and I have to stay up to do some laundry.

 

Yeah, that happens a lot.

 

Who cares about America? When did America come into this at all?

The point is that saying "Oh, only 2 of the 20 worst wars in history were caused by religion" is still 2 too many.

 

how about mongols?

 

I don't think so.

I think they are fighting for their land and to keep their culture. Of course religion is part of their culture.

 

It is a misrepresentation to compare the "evils" of religious war simply on the basis of numbers killed because the population of the world today is larger.

A more representative test would be to look at things on a percentage basis.

Religion is likely the number one (if not the number 2) killer on a percentage basis (outside of natural causes or accidental causes).

 

The Thirty Years War can't be called a war of religion; it wasn't about theology but about the Hapsburgs versus Everybody Else, including other Hapsburgs. Catholic France was opposed to the Catholic League, as were other smaller Catholic states, though may were prone to changing sides according to which way the wind was blowing. As for the French wars, in an era when the King owned everything, his 'religion' was his kingdom's religion, and other religions would be considered political threats or 'rebellion' against the King, so I don't know that they would be wars of 'religion', either. Considering the regularity with which powerful kings would change the religion of their kingdoms practically overnight if the existential political realities of the moment produced advantages for doing so, most of what is passed off as 'religious wars' aren't anything of the kind, they're political and 'secular' opportunities. Given most church leaders in a kingdom were usually hand-picked by the Kings themselves, and often their own relatives, or patronages owed to somebody for favors rendered, the top leadership of most Kingdoms' 'churches' were just feudal rulers themselves, with little concern for theology or religion personally, it was just another office and/or fief.