France will not deliver the Mistral helicopter carriers to russia

Markus do you think a stupid game matters when the world is heading into WWIII, thanks to our Washington neo con sociopaths...who are rubbing their hands together knowing Germany will get the brunt of it. They see it only as a way to buy up Europe, or what's left of it, I mean the U.S. became the leader of the world the last time Europe self destructed, so the h*ll with the people. I mean if Washington is arming people who are committing genocide now, why would they care about the Germans? You're not so special.

 

a WC of third world countries, no television revenue and no corporate sponsors and an estimated € 30 million cost...if it comes to that FIFA will move the tournament elsewhere, there are a number of countries with facilities in place that could take it on on short notice, spain, france, uk, germany, usa, brazil, japan/korea...even ukraine/poland, wouldn't that be an awesome slap in putins face...

 

I should hope not. (*)(*)(*)(*) France.

 

do you actually think europe hasn't been actively stockpiling energy during this crisis?....russia needs the revenue from the gas far more than europe needs gas...

 

Question for those out there saying "Let the EU deal with their own problems" or similar vernacular.]

Do you believe we should not back our treaties?

Honest question and why.

Should we have never signed them?

Should we just be selfish and say F it?

I am curious what those of you think of these questions. Treaties are very important as to trust in geopolitics and if we negate them that is a pretty big slap in the face to both our allies as well as our international reputation.

So again, just tear the treaties up in your guys opinions?

 

Then why is Oettinger in panic mode trying to get talks set for mid September and Lithuania who is 100% dependent on Russian gas begging the US, who by the way still has to import Nat gas from Russia for us to start exporting gas to them. Their infrastructure is not set up for long term storage since Russia was prepared to supply for many more decades. Nat gas can be stored in caverns to a certain extent depending on the capability for those caverns to hold a limited amount as is the case under PA. and W. Virginia but oil can not be stored in the same manner. Better start chopping.
EU, Russia, Ukraine gas talks possible mid-September: Oettinger


By Siobhan Hall in Brussels


September 02, 2014 - The EU, Russia and Ukraine could have their next three-way talks to resolve the Russian-Ukrainian gas price dispute in mid-September, EU energy commissioner Guenther Oettinger said September 2.


"We will first hold a technical meeting on expert level between my services and Russia in Brussels on Thursday," he said in an emailed statement.


The aim is to look in more detail at supply security issues for this winter, following up on Oettinger's talks on August 29 in Moscow with Russian energy minister Alexander Novak.


These bilateral talks will also cover Russian gas company Gazprom's use of its OPAL gas pipeline in Germany, where the next deadline for the European Commission to decide on this is mid-September, according to an EU source.

 

Agreed, otherwise it's no different than russia, treaties mean nothing to putin or hitler...remember that treaty respecting ukraines border in return ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons

 

The Budapest Memorandum was broken by the US when Nuland exposed on the leaked phone call and in the Chevron speech that the US had been using NGO's to control the political arena of Ukraine for 5 years.
Also the Warsaw was broken by NATO (the US) by moving NATO bases further east from Berlin when Russia removed their troops from Germany.
You cant break an agreement that the US already through out the window years ago.

 

A slap in Putin's face for what, for doing this? I have news for you, the American installed and supported junta did it...not that you would give a hoot, it's not your life right? Our government should worry about more serious things like for instance like gay marriage, etc. Oh well, the way Obama's going it will be reaching you soon.

[video=youtube;F0fHJ-nKHPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0fHJ-nKHPE[/video]

 

Uhhh! Isn't Russia the world's largest oil producer?

 

At Moscow they have understood ... and Vladimir Vladimirovic is already doing something about ...

 

The back part of gunship carrier was made at Sevmash. So, after France returns the money they will also have to cut the back part and send it at their costs back to Russia. What is left can probably double the ability of our german friends to defend themselves. After that maybe their american masters would even halt some of the spying programs.
Overall it just says that EU is unreliable partner. And it is better to deal with anyone else but them.

 

This doesn't bode well for France's future arm sales to other countries. What's the point of only selling weapons to people who build better weapons than you anyway? This will probably kill off France's military R&D industry as no nation that would need their weapons will risk buying from them.

 

This wouldn't be so negative ... France is not running a fair policy in military production from a European perspective. Paris has already taken the wrong decision to compete with Eurofighter consortium producing its own Rafale [this annoyed a bit French EU partners like UK, Germany and Italy]. So if this matter will be also an other alarm clock for French military industry, may be next time they will manage similar matters at EU level ...

 

i've no idea but wonder how come that Russia was talked into this deal which she didn't need to do.

 

Easy. The military part of the ship was made on russian Sevmash factory. All the electronics and 'the meat' of the vessel is russian. So in order to use such a ship Germany (look at the first post) would need to buy russian helicopters or rebuild the ship.
But the base and the comfort level is french. Russian army is getting reformed. The battle with corruption was performed under a anti-crisis manager (unpopular as all the kind of these managers). In order to get a product of a decent quality at a reasonable price this project emerged. Russia invested a billion dollars to french industry in order to make its own industry to learn how to make a modern vessel.

Soviet military industry is still the best, but the approach is not modern enough. Soviet war strategy was based on a mass armies. We still have the best mass tank, best mass plane, best mass rifle and machine gun. Easy to make and to use. By millions of soviet people forged by an idea and ready to fight. But look at what happens nowadays. NATO is using elite forces and bombers to kill libyan army and to assault Tripoli from the sea. The same fleet was based in Syria to perform the same activity and only the usage of russian northern fleet prevented the massacre there. If not russians the Chaliphate would include not only a considerable part of destroyed Iraq, but also Syria. The muslim brothers after color revolution are still strong in Egypt. Afghanistan has not stopped to be a nest of terrorists together with Pakistan. Chinese Sintzyan and russian Caucases Libya is just waiting for a political start in order to join the super-puper state of terrorists every part of which was formed due to American or NATO involvance. Could it be prevented by soviet army? No. Soviet army couldn't prevent it. The future battlefield is the battle of spec ops, who need comfort more than the possibility of mass usage of troops. Once they fail (and they will inevitably fail) and the politicians start a nuclear war, which also doesn't require mass weaponry.
Mistrals are a part of a russian strategy to return into the geopolitical battle and an attempt to save as much people as possible of been slaughtered like the american journalists just been.

 

I believe that Russia will get their ships because they hold the tech key to them and don't see them being dumb enough to not have put in "security so that only they can use them. Without complete overhauls I don't think France will be able to sell them and cant take the loss.
I think they will be glad they have them as the currency wars are starting to come to a catastrophic end.

 

The next president would sell them to Russia. Hopefully it will be a guy who can afford being a french rather than a director of one of US subsidiaries. And yes. There is no chance that the ships will be used by anyone else. The standards are different.

 

For accuracy, as for I have understood Paris has suspended, not deleted, the supply of Mistral class ships to Russia.

The decision is clearly connected with the ongoing situation in Eastern Ukraine.
Once Russia will stop to interfere in a quite direct and evident way in the internal matters of a sovereign country [Ukraine], I guess France will go back to existing supply contracts. All to see if, at that point, Russia will still want those ships ...

 

It's not what is said in the contract anyway. Violation against the contract means fines.

It is connected with a pressure from Washington. If not Eastern Ukraine it would be occupation of Georgia or anything else.

All the characteristics as 'evident', 'direct', 'undisputable', 'like everyone sees' etc is not adding any sense to the lie of the so called 'russian invasion'. There is no russian invasion to eastern Ukraine. Russian army fought against georgian once it was protecting its own people. That was evident and undisputable. As for Ukraine... Look at the maps of the conflict. It is quite evident that it is ukrainian army which used to attack since june. It came from Slaviansk all the way to Donetsk and Lugansk. It was losing planes, machinery and people, but it was attacking the regions which had the referendum in. The neighboring to Russia provinces of Ukraine are safe! Russian Crimea borders with Kherson, (the ukrainian military that accumulated near Crimea in spring was sent to Donetsk)
Khar'kov and Sumy. But the war is located only in these 2 districts. Ukrainian army is terrorising the population with aviation strikes. About a million left these districts and absolute majority went to... Russia. How can possibly Russia attack and host the refugees at the same time? I understand that the internal propaganda in the west is inevitable but there should be a sense of self-respect in order not to believe such garbage as Psaki lies every day!

I demand any decent proof from every speaker who tells that there is russian invasion to Ukraine. I admit that Crimea really passed from Ukraine to Russia. It can be disputable if 90% of the population in Crimea did it according to the law or there was another way to do what they wanted. I can understand if Putin supports the rebels in Donetsk and Lugansk for absolute majority of russians is on their side in THEIR conflict with Ukraine. I see a lot of russians who really make war on their own in the districts. I could imagine some super spec ops of russian origin who are performing different missions in this territory (as well as spec ops of US, Poland etc) But there is absolutely no regular russian army and russian invasion.
Russian invasion looks differently. When it starts no NATO general is referring to gathering of russian troops near the russian border. And Russia uses its air force and a large amount of armors which have no chance to get unnoticed from space or from the ground. It happened already in Georgia, when russian army crossed the border destroying the attacking georgian troops. Once the threat to Ossetia and Abkhazia was destroyed russian army returned to their bases. Nothing like that unfortunately happens in east Ukraine. Nothing! If russian army invaded the day it was said in Washington we wouldn't observe someone's artillery shooting at Donetsk and Lugansk. And russian army wouldn't block Mariupol allowing ukrainian forces to build up some defense systems there. All the sayings about russian invasion to Ukraine is a blatant and idiotic lie!

 

Hollande is the pawn of US and EU commissioners. There is little he does that is for the national interest.

Now considering the NATO history on deliverying weapons to so-called dictator. If i remember US did this in south america.

 

Nulands leaked phone call transcript.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

 

Common sense does not seem to be prevailing on the floor of our House in the Empires capital.

 

Pauvre, pauvre France!



It appears that Francois Holland, aka "soft testicle" (nickname given to him by Martine Aubry, First Secretary of the Socialist Party of France), has outdone even Tony Blair as the US's most docile poodle in Europe. After resisting US pressure for a long time and being fined billions of dollars for doing so, he has suddenly decided to cave in and suspend the delivery of the French Mistrals to Russia. However, not will the US will not return to 9 billion dollars extorted out of Paribas, now the Russian can impose astronomical penalties on France for breach of contract. Double whammy for Hollande!

Now I suspect that this is a measure which will last exactly as long as the upcoming NATO summit and that as soon it is over the "circumstances for delivery" will magically become "right again". As for Russia - no worries. She will either get the ships or get a huge load of money. A win-win situation for sure

But that is hardly the point.

First, whether Russia really needs these French ships is an extremely controversial issue in Russia, especially in the military. I did not take a poll, but my guess is that most of the military don't want them and rather spend the money elsewhere. This was a Medvedev purchase which was far from having a unanimity behind it. Personally, I think that the Mistrals are very good ships, very versatile, and that Russia could use on in the Black Sea and one in the Far East. They also come at at time with the Russian shipbuilding industry is over-worked and does not have the capacity to fulfill all the orders of the Russian Navy. Finally, the Mistrals come with an advanced communication and command infrastructure which the Russian would like to get their hands one. But I have always had a weak spot for French weapon systems and nobody asked me my opinion anyway. Besides, there are cheaper way for Russian to get that kind of capabilities or systems.

I think that the real importance of the Mistral contact was to show Russia, France and the rest of the world that the two countries could work together, even on huge contracts, that France is a credibly supplier and that the Russian and French military industrial complexes can cooperate.

Now the French look like total whips and idiots.




That is really unfair. The French deserve a great deal of credit for doing everything just right, sining such a complex agreement is no small task, and for designing a superb ship. Now all this is compromised by Francois "soft testicle" Hollande who clearly has the vision, courage, intelligence and leadership qualities of a blue-green algae.

I bet you the ships will be delivered more or less on time. But a terrible blow has been dealt to one of values the French hold extremely dear: the independence of their country from all other big powers. If the British are more or less resigned to their role as janitor for Uncle Sam, the French will not accept this and I expect the hatred for the current regime to become even more virulent than it is today. I tend to agree with French economist Pierre Jovanovic when he predicts that "King Francois" (another of his nicknames) will never finish his term in office.

Pauvre, pauvre France...

The Saker
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/

 

giving a major nuclear power with aggressive tendencies the middle finger, makes you brave.

bravo to France!!!