What is a liberal?

So you are pro-gay marriage? Pro-choice on abortion?

 

well so is a conservative someone who can't use the English language properly?

 

I have for my own use constructed a line. It has nothing what ever to do with the classic left right political dichotomy. On one end of that line is anarchy on the other end is totalitarianism neither end will ever exist because human beings aren't omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent which is another way of saying they aren't perfect. The more behaviors you think the government ought to impact the more totalitarian you become. This is unavoidable. I rarely use the term liberal for two reasons. 1st it confuses people and 2nd I do not wish to give credit where it isn't due.

When you are looking at American politics throw the damn dictionary away. What we call liberals in this country are for the most part statist left. Libertarians are what they call liberals most everywhere else on the planet. There are no dictionary conservatives here. Almost nobody likes the status quo and both sides want change the argument is about the shape and nature of that change. The right in this country believes that too many things have become federal crimes of one sort or the other, and that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement should be returned to the states and cities. Further we are not interested in a return of slavery or other such nastiness because it is as much an affront to individual liberty as is our massive tax code and federal bureaucracy. The left in this country tends to believe that true freedom for all can only exist if everyone has the opportunity to live out there dreams even if those dreams impact the well being of everyone else. But god help you if your dream is to be rich and prosperous.

 

Do a deeper analysis. Why do the american liberals want to have the government control more?

 

The exact same thing can be asked of conservatives.

 

Dunno... i have very mixed opinions. I could be a cocaine boss and say " people should have the right to sniff what they want with their nose "... that's very... liberal, but not so much moral. More like dishonest capitalism disguised. That's why being a liberal doesn't automatically mean to be on the good side, we must be aware of the sharks lurking under our feets.

 

Well, no not really, since they typically want it to control less things. But, we can reframe the question: What areas and to what extent do liberals and conservatives want the government to control, and why do they want that?

 

It doesn't really need deeper analysis. It surface thinking and in many regards little more than a knee jerk response. Have you ever heard the phrase "There ought to be a law"? That's the lefts answer to almost everything. Why? Human nature. It's easy, and now that you've instructed the governing authorities to deal with it, what ever it is, you don't have to worry about your self because, at least in your own mind, you've now dealt with the situation. Unfortunately when you give government and inch it will take about three parsecs.

And please understand the problem with the left isn't their hearts. They really do want to help the poor and keep people safe. The problem lies in how they have chosen to deal with these rather laudable goals.

 

Point being, that the american liberals wants new laws and control because they believe it works towards freedom, as they understand it. Anti-discrimination laws gives the freedom to not be discriminated against. Laws against adverstisement give the freedom from advertisement. Etc.

 

A Conservative is someone who votes Republican.

(At least here in the states.)

 

Well, that's wrong. The GOP is predominantly conservative and the democrats are predominantly liberal, but there are liberals in the GOP and conservatives with the democrats.

 

Not so much after the purges. They weren't radical enough.

 

More polarised indeed, but point being that conservatve and repulbican, and liberal and democrat, are not synonyms.

 

In this country a progressive/democrat is one extreme polar opposite faction of the two party scam, while a neocon/republican represents the other faction of the big government leeches/vermin. The scam is the most successful good cop/bad cop routine ever devised to control a population.

Liberals/conservatives as misnomers when identifying with the current political two party scheme. Liberals and conservatives alike are rarely represented properly and have been replaced with extremist lunatic supremacists, that represent and work directly for the rich/elites who own the current plutocracy.

Actual liberals or actual conservatives would be a breath of fresh air in the current political landscape since they are basically ignored for their beliefs or values and used as tools for the dominating two party scam.

Perfectly exemplified below;

What he is calling liberals are really properly identified as progressive supremacists that dominate the power structure of the democrat party. And what he is referring to as conservatives, don't exist in the leadership of the republican party, also properly described as neocon supremacists. They both want a country that is socially and politically divided so that the people are easily manipulated and "controlled".

They (both parties) are working in unison with one another to maintain only one prime directive, maintaining and keeping the plutocracy alive and viable.

Unfortunately people are too vain to accept the fact that they are being played so well.

 

A Conservative, for the most part, is someone who votes Republican because they have been led to believe that the party is one of conservative values. Unfortunately it isn't, and has shown itself not to be for well over 30 years now.

 

On forums like this one the word liberal is kind of like the word atheist. They are both willfully misunderstood as evil because they oppose some imagined status quo where America is supposed to a white Christian nation that considers power and greed virtues.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
— Thomas Jefferson.

“The power of all corporations ought to be limited, [...] the growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”
— James Madison

“He who is the author of a war, lets loose the whole contagion of hell, and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death.”
— Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V, 1797

“War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.” -Thomas Jefferson

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

“As to Taxes, they are evidently inseparable from Government. It is impossible without them to pay the debts of the nation, to protect it from foreign danger, or to secure individuals from lawless violence and rapine.” –= Alexander Hamilton: Address to the Electors of the State of New York, March, 1801

What the word liberal means and what people want it to mean are two different things and because of the partisan society of marionettes it along with every other label has lost all meaning.

For those protecting that imaginary status quo I mentioned above, if you are against the massive military budget you are a liberal, if you are against the top 1% having all the wealth and doing nothing of any worth for the country that gave it to them you're a liberal, if you care about what your kids are eating in school you are a liberal, if care about the failing education system especially in the poorer parts of the country you are a liberal, if you care about people being payed a living wage you are a liberal, if you think liberty is liberty regardless of your sexual orientation you are liberal, if you think the greatest country on earth should have a health care system not run on greed you are liberal, if you think corporations are not people you're a liberal, if you are not terrified about living in a multicultural society you are a liberal, if you think poverty; poor education systems, the drug war, racism of all kinds, and pretty much anything other than the color of a persons skin is the reason they commit crimes you are a liberal, if you have anything at all bad to say about capitalism you are a liberal, if you have anything at all good to say about socialism you are a liberal AND a bonafide socialist who hates America. I could go on and on, but none of it matters.

The debate isn't between conservatives and liberals anymore and it's not about the issues it's about protecting the status quo that solidified itself over the last 30 years vs changing it. All one has to do is look at who is benefiting from the status quo while fighting to keep it to find the reason for our countries problems. In the past all you had to do is point to the king or tyrant and so we tend to point to which ever president is in power at the time but we all know the men with real power live in the private sector safe in their ivory towers, protected by a government they corrupted and a partisan, polarized society they manipulate.

If you can get them asking the wrong questions, you don't have to worry about the answers.

 

No as I do not believe that "Conservatives believe humans are basically bad and flawed". Conservatives are human, just like me, and the conservatives I know in general believe that people are good.

My view on government is that both the Democrats and Republicans are idiots. There must be something in the water in offices of power that turns idealist with unifying ideas into political partisans.

 

I believe I've defined it pretty well in my signature.

 

Perhaps it'd interest you to know that the whole philosophy of conservatism is based on the assumption of humans' flaws and fallibility. Everything else in conservatism stems from that assumption.