Scotland - it should not be allowed to secede

If you are saying you don't know there is a vote for Scottish Independence in 9 days then Yes, you have been asleep.

 

No, not at all. Scotland's position is not comparable to Spain's.

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/09/paul-krugman-what-the-heck/

It is true that in the long term Scotland will probably choose to have her own currency and it is also true that some people would prefer that now but the feedback which has been given is that what is in Scotland's and rUK's best interests at the moment is to have a currency union. See article before continuing on your Paul Krugman position.

 

I must admit to being quite ambivalent to this whole campaign, generally I would of liked Scotland to of voted No because I do not want to see endless Tory governments in the rest of the UK. But it is up to the Scottish to decide on theit future. However listening to the news last night it appears that the NO campaign are about to offer a new deal to the Scots
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dum-St-Andrew-s-Day-Gordon-Brown-reveals.html
Now I am amazed, not one of the three parties have any mandate whatsoever from the UK electorate to offer this to the Scots. It is not that I necessarily disagree with what's on offer, its that no one has asked us! More and more the major parties are deviating from their manifestos and democracy is becoming a joke.

 

Difficult to tell if it could have any effect. It is basically what we were told would happen early in the campaign but with three different offers from the three parties and no time table. It is a consequence of the fear over the Yes vote rising and a desire to stop it, presumably because before the election wording was decided, the majority wanted Devo Max, basically what these offers are but Cameron refused to have it on the Referendum Paper. This they are regurgitating now with an apparent timetable. However it is not just yourself but others in Parliament who are protesting about this so there really is no reason to believe this would happen. Even with the timetable it would be unlikely to go through before the next election so Parliament will be able to stop it I would think. Scotland has been offered similar deals before which have not been forthcoming. Scottish Labour voters are coming over to Yes and that seems to be primarily what London wants to stop.

It is difficult to tell if it will have much influence. Scotland has become alive politically during the Referendum Campaign and more and more people are feeling that they are the best people to make the choices in their own country. Further Financial advisers believe that after the 'transition' we are likely to be a very financially sound country. Would be a lot to lose after this time. I for instance earlier on would have been interested in the UK becoming a Federal Union but where we have got now, I am more keen on Independence, of course Federalism is not even on offer. Also do not forget there is no saying that for instance UKIP may not get a significant place in Government at some time and they want to take away devolution so really the only way we can be sure not only that Scotland is governed according to the will of the Scottish people but also that even devolution is not at some future time taken away is to vote Yes.

 

If Scotland chooses independence, the split of oil revenue, the disposition of military bases, the ownership of royal assets will need to be worked out, and that will be like a property settlement in a bitterly contested divorce, the UK may be all touchy feely and sensitive to Scotland, now that she has her bags packed and is waiting for the taxi to arrive, but once she gets in that cab, she's shut off, and it's hardball ...

 

Oh come on, No one is fooled by what they are saying now. I think my answer to RiaRaeb makes that clear. They have though been making out that they will be impossible negotiators so that is also not a surprise. However many people expect that they will actually become somewhat more reasonable if a Yes vote comes as that would also be in their interests. A long transition period is not going to help them any more than us. Some things will be decided by law, others by negotiation and we are not without strength for negotiation.

 

Whatever happens, it will all work out, but the working out won't be easy. Even a "NO" vote will have some stuff to work out, especially when the "extra" stuff that Scotland has been promised if she stays starts to "feel unfair".

 

No, they haven't. Where?

It would take years. There's no hurrying it up.

Mind, I still firmly believe it's not going to happen.

 

Good point. There are those who already believe that Scotland gets more than her fair share and from what I have heard there is likely to be negativity towards Scotland whether she goes or stays with English people in a survey wanting to be very hard on her and that there has now been complaints all over rUK about what is now being offered with Wales and NI wanting more or the same devolution and different areas of England also wanting some devolved powers. Forget for a moment the possibility of Scotland being treated badly and this surely all spells good because what I noticed living in different parts of England is that they are as fed up with everything being based on the South East as everyone else. At it's best it could lead to England with Scotland if she votes No becoming much more democratic leading to a Federal system.

This opinion peace gives an idea

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-days-to-save-the-union-scottish-independence

Everything I hear suggests it is going to big big changes for rUK as well. Of course there is also the awful possibility of UKIP getting to a position of power and not impossible that could lead the civil war.

An Independent Scotland would hope to be a good example of moving back towards democracy, people becoming active participants again in political issues and moving out of neo liberalism. Our intention is to have good relations with rUK.

 

This is amongst the most ridiculous things I've read.

 

http://glasgowunihumanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/scottish-independence-alex-salmond-and.html

 

I imagine that England uses more of Scotland's tax money than the Scots get back. The enormous welfare state that is the current UK, that is rapidly being taken over by Africans and Arabs, is doomed to fail.

There is a similar feeling in California, where the counties outside of Los Angeles and San Fransisco and other large Hispanic Supremacist areas are forced to support these mini welfare states. There is a movement for them to succeed and form their own state. Our congress and president would never allow this though. At least Scotland has a chance.

 

Actually they're £17bn behind per year in tax revenue.
The rest is supplemented by Westminster and EU structural funding and in order to qualify for the latter the state has to be in a deficit.

 

As an elderly Scot who has lived my entire life in Scotland, apart from holidays, can I just point out the Scotland was a Kingdom and country in it's own right before even England was one country, and it was never a 'region' of England or Britain.
The UK was formed by a union between Scotland and England which the people did not want, allegedly it was to be an equal union, however it did not turn out to be so and Scotland has ever been treated as though it was just an annex inthe north of England.
For England these days, read London, that's what Westminster sees as England. All Scotland oil and gas wealth has gone south to London which has been regenerated with that income.
The Scots pay more in taxes to the treasury in Westminster than they get back to run Scotland.
The Scottish people have had enough and now want a Scottish government in complete control of Scotlands resources and finance, laws and acts.
Westminster now is rushing to try to hold on to this country as it is rich in natural resources which England lacks, including water and electricity and is making all sorts of promises if people will vote to stay in the union, but as one person put it, if we will be better together after the referendum, why are we not better together now.
At present the Westminster government was not voted for in Scotland but only in England and Wales so the people of Scotland would like to see a government for whom they voted.
Yes, an independent Scotland will make mistakes, but they will be Scotland's mistakes, not Westminsters and we have all to often in the past paid over and over for mistakes made in Westminster, a government we did not vote for.

 

No it hasn't

No. If it weren't for the oil industry Aberdeen would be nothing.
I was actually involved in the oil and gas industry for two years and former boss is still a very good friend of mine.
And I can say that you've written doesn't make sense.

No they don't. I's short by £17bn per annum.

So you don't have a parliament which can enact laws? Or a separate legal jurisdiction?

No it doesn't. Oil is in on the decline whereas England has more than enough coal reserves to last 200 years and even shale oil as well.

That doesn't make sense.

Yes they have. Scots have had the right to vote since 1918. Even the SNP have had MP's in parliament.

I'll be more than happy to be rid of Scotland. At least I won't have to hear about Scots blaming the English for everything.

 

Not a very clever response. Just a bitter, ill informed and biased English reply, the sort we have been hearing for years and it is attitudes like yours which have brought about the necessity for a referendum.

 

Not a very clever response. Just a bitter, ill informed and biased English reply, the sort we have been hearing for years and it is attitudes like yours which have brought about the necessity for a referendum. I should also like to point out to you that there is much more untapped oil off the Western Isles of Scotland estimated at approx 54billion barrels and that is as well as what is still in the north sea.

- - - Updated - - -

Apologies for the double post. I hit the wrong button before I had finished.

 

You did read it didn't you?
Can you refute the fact that Scots have had the vote since 1918?
Or that you do have a legal jurisdiction of your own?
That Scotland is already short of £17bn per year?

I think that you're a bigot and I challenge you to answer these questions.

And no there isn't 54bn barrels off the western isles in fact that's been found to be untrue.

 

Further information on the currency debate, the current bank of England governor has publicly stated that it would be impossible for Scotland and rUK to share a currency if Scotland were to become independent. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29133217

Extract - Bank of England governor Mark Carney has told trade unions that currency union in the event of Scottish independence would be "incompatible with sovereignty".
Mr Carney told the TUC conference that a currency required a centralised bank and shared banking regulations.
Common taxation and spending were also needed, he said.

 

though it is a British internal matter, I think the independence of Scotland would be a mistake.

 

It would have helped if you knew anything about the subject.
Firstly the Union was formed by force and is a remnant of the British Empire days. Secondly the Scottish vote accounts for only 6% of the British vote, which had the result that whatever they voted for they never got. There are more Panda's in Scotland than Conservative MP's who are leading the British coalition government at Westminster. Westminster has always considered their Northern partners as a commodity, placing the nuclear arsenal on their soil because the English do not want them in their back yard.
Scotland voted for the abolition of University tuition fees, now £9000 in England. So much for free education hey ?
The English have now similar issues with Europe. We elect politicians who are overruled by Brussels politicians, not accountable to us bar a ficticious vote for MEP's every four years or so.
The rules they make are 'one size fit's all' which does not work and causes untold damage to countries and peoples lives.
The politicians of course favour centralisation and much less accountability, a bit like the US.
You keep your madness over there and leave us alone. We have our own choices as do you, so bug off.

 

No it wasn't. Where did you get that idea from?

That's not true. The SNP has had seats in parliament
And I suppose the Scots didn't elect three terms of Labour government?

Do you actually understand what a coalition government is?

No. That was done because it's in the best place to hold a deep water dock for submarines as well as easier access to the North sea which is where Soviet submarines would obviously come from.
And nuclear weaponry are considerably safer than nuclear reactors because the only way a nuclear bomb can go off is if it's armed.

You do realise that nobody pays that whilst studying and it's only if you earn over £21,000 per annum after a few that you actually start to pay it back.
It is effectively free.

I sort of agree with that

At least Scots aren't bullied just for being Scots in England.
And if you're going to take that attitude then why don't you get your people out of my country considering there are more of them here than there are of us over there.
The one thing that I really loathe is sloppiness.
Quite frankly you need to learn about the things you're talking about.

 

LoL. It's a long time since I have read such a load of completely ignorant rubbish as that posted by pro consul.
Yes indeed, Scotland was forced into the union by greedy nobles and the ordinary population rioted when the union was announced but they could not change it as they had no votes and were not asked what they thought.
Of course Scotland has the vote. Where did anyone imply that we couldn't vote in a general election. We have voted for many years but still get the government England elects due to proportional representation and the fact that Scotland having less MP's loses out every time.
The figures you quote for Scotland's funding are the figures that England prefers to believe, not the actual figures. Still why spoil a good story by a few truths eh!
As to Trident, when asked by a senior reporter from a national newspaper why Trident could not be housed in Plymouth or Portsmouth, the Westminster reply was that the WMD couldn't be put in these towns in case of an accident as both these towns were heavily populated. No mention of the fact that the Glasgow, the biggest city in Scotland and several large towns, Greenoch, Gourock, Paisley and numerous smaller towns are a short distance from Trident and Faslane.
You are certainly no political genius, just another bigot who knows nothing but thinks he knows all and refuses to accept facts which differ from what he likes to believe.

 

Show me where I've insulted you.

You did.

You cant even spell representation.
And that's nonsense.

Yes they are.

That is really vague.

Show me where I've said something bigoted.
Because you have.

 

Perhaps you could read the posts properly. I did not say you insulted me anywhere. I did not imply that Scotland did not have the vote.
I made a typo error and I expect you have done the same at times.
Your figures are wrong but you won't accept that.
Now I will give you some facts starting with oil.
At present, Oil does not pay for Scotland's public services. All the income from oil goes to Westminster along with all the revenues from other taxes. Westminster then decides how much pocket money to relocate to Scotland and it is always much less than what has been paid in from Scotland.
Westminster then makes the decision on how to spend the rest of Scotland's oil money, but chooses not to do the sensible thing and create an oil fund. No It chooses instead to use it to regenerate London, pay the cost of privatisation, tax cuts for the wealthy, bale out the bankers, London's sewer upgrades to the tune of 4 billion pounds, High speed railway from London to Birmingham, and nuclear toys.
You will note that not in any way has much been done for the other great cities of England. No, everything is centered around London. Meantime the NHS in England is on the verge of collapse.
I will bring you some more actual facts shortly. Must go for now. PS Excuse any typo errors. I have very poor eyesight.