Remind me why they deserve $15 an hour...

as we say in America's official language... Mucho Gracious

 

If you say so.

I just asked someone to explain how they "deserve" it, since that is the topic of the thread.

 

They deserve it because Sam Walton desired it.

End of story.

That is far more a valid reason than anything you could come up with that would validate why YOU should control over it.

 

Not sure I see the link between inheritance and minimum wage.

 

"Generic Lottery" determines who deserves it for conservatives. Got it. You've already made the point crystal clear.

I of course never claimed that I should control over it. Shoot down another straw man.

 

In both cases you have someone getting money for something.

In the case of the guy making minimum was, it's because he's because working.

In the case of the Walton heirs, it's because of the Genetic Lottery.

Since your OP brought of the issue of whether the guy making minimum wage deserves it, I asked the question whether what the Walton heirs did to deserve it.

And still haven't gotten a reason. Except to because of the Generic Lottery.

Deserving seems to have little to do with what money someone should get in conservatives' view.

 

Yes, because in the conservative world, the family unit still bears one of the most important social constructs to development of children and taking care of the elderly.

What is ironic, is that you dismiss the family unit and the concept of intentional generational wealth building, and rather desire that society dictate who acquires that wealth, either too dense or too ignorant to realize that the family unit is the prime social organization.

My parents worked hard.. not for themselves, but for me and my brother and sister. Their parents before them, just as I will for my kids.

You don't have to like that. You might think thats unfair. But your envy and jealousy doesn't get to dictate where other people wish to donate their wealth. Its THEIR money.

Oh don't spin. You believe that society should confiscate or significantly tax inheritance to better redistribute it. You know it. I know it. The organization that you would desire to undertake this effort... government. An organization you have some say over. Yes, you want to control it.

 

And the pizza delivery guys is somehow less deserving because poorer folks just can't love their families as much as rich folks do?

I appreciate your constant need to make personalized ad hom attacks because you cannot logically defend your position.

I simply asked you want the Walton heirs did to "deserve" their scores of billions, since you brought up the issue of deserving in reference to the working guy.

And you've offered nothing except the "Genetic Lottery". Because you cannot.

The fact you cannot defend your position is evident in the fact you must resort to personal attacks instead. So what else is new here on PF?

Good lord, what on Earth are you babbling about? An organization I have some say over? What "say" do you claim I have, and over what?

I've stated my position on estate taxes many times. It should be taxed to the recipient like income, but with adjustments to reflect it is a lump sum payment as opposed to an stream of income.

 

I absoultely can.... they are risking their capital whenever they invest in something.

The moment the Pizza delivery guy wants to start investing his money into the company, he can enjoy more profits shares.


I also notice your aversion to inheritted wealth doesn't include liberal heiresses like Steve Jobs child who is worth 15 billion and used the wealth her father started up to start her own company. She also donated money to the Clinton campaigns.... so you're right... lets just focus on the evil Waltons who provide jobs to millions

 

you are again, confused that "deserves more money" is relative to how good a person they are. a doctor deserves more money than I do, not because he's just such a great person. He could be cheating on his wife with a 25 yo nurse and may never tip his waitresses.... he deserves more because the value of his services he provides to the community is valued more than my services.


A burger-flipper can be the best person ever, but if his only skill is making big macs.... he doesn't deserve the same pay as someone who teaches, polices, firefights, EMTs. Because making min wage $15 hour in my area of the country would put said burger flipper making more than beginning teachers and a few different city's cops.

 

Good lord man. Life isn't fair. Some people are born with good genes. Other are pretty. Some are smart. Some are born to families who install values and morals. Some are born to families that are abusive. Some are born to families that have accumulated wealth for decades.

Your desire to make life "fair" is childish and screams of jealously and envy.

The pizza guy deserves what life has delivered him. That is life. What he doesn't deserve is the fruits of somebody else's labor because YOU feel you can make the world fair.

I am defending the logic that life is not a level playing field over and over and over.

Using the excuse that other people are wealthy and that PREVENTS the pizza guy from earning wealth is just simply not the case. Its an excuse.

I simply asked you want the Walton heirs did to "deserve" their scores of billions, since you brought up the issue of deserving in reference to the working guy.

And you've offered nothing except the "Genetic Lottery". Because you cannot.

The fact you cannot defend your position is evident in the fact you must resort to personal attacks instead. So what else is new here on PF?

You are on this forum every single day espousing your liberal progressive non-sense which you take to the polls with you when you vote.

Yes, your desire to take wealth from rich people is an agenda that is highly controversial right now. You have a say in propagating that atrocity across our society.

But hey... play stupid if you like. Most people are already convinced anyway.

So basically at the higher nearly 50% rate. Got it.

So earning that were already taxed once at 25 - 30% are going to be taxed again at 50%. So our generational wealth building is taxed at 75 - 80%. Good little liberal.

How exactly do you propose that we tax non-liquid assets? Farm land for instance. Often times worth millions. When that is inherited, how do we handle collection of the inheritance tax?

Just admit it. Your motivation to tax inheritance at high rates is because you are jealous. You are envious of other peoples wealth. Skirting around the issue, man up, and just say it.

 

Fair enough.

So tell me again what the Wal-mart heirs did to deserve the scores of billions of dollars they got?

 

because they invest their own capital in creating jobs.... that is a valueable service....

 

So you're not trying to be fair when you talk about what the pizza guy "deserves". Got it. I didn't think so.

Back to the ad homs, standard refuge of conservatives and 1% apologists who cannot defend their positions.

I can do it too.

Your desire to grant privilege to those who won the Genetic Lottery screams of greed and avarice.

Says the guy who doesn't care about fairness.

That is patently obvious.

I didn't make that argument at all. The strawman, classic refuge of the conservative and 1% apologist after the ad homs.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree with it.

Back to the ad homs. So predictable.

 

The top income tax rate is about 40%, so I'm not sure how you get 50%.

However, based on the fact that this is essentially an unearned windfall for winning the Genetic Lottery that comes at the cost of higher taxes on people who actually are working, I can certainly see your point for a higher tax rate.

Standard 1% apologist argument. Most of the inherited wealth is unrealized capital gains, which have never been taxed.

And even if it had been taxed to the deceased, it wasn't taxed to the recipient.

Just like they always have, based on valuations.

Back to the personalize and ad homs! What a surprise coming from you! LOL

Back at ya: Just admit it. Your motivation to eliminate taxes on inheritance is because you are greedy. You are greedy because to you, more is never enough. Skirting around the issue, man up, and just say it.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be impressive. But they are reaping dividends (taxed at special low tax rates that are about half the rate of earned income) from money they were given.

Which no one yet has explained why the "deserve" except for winning the Genetic Lottery.

 

and so does Steve Job's daughter, for the exact same reason.... you still won't address that, whenever it's a liberal who benefits....


but say what you will, it's still their money to invest or not to invest. They could have easily lived off of the money dad left them, and not created jobs for those unskilled people to have.....

 

Ask the person who gave it to them. They are the only person to judge whether someone deserves a gift.






​

 

I'm sorry, what did you want me to address? Whether I think she "deserves" billions of dollars. No. What has she done to deserve it, other than win the Genetic Lottery?

They are living off the money daddy left them.

- - - Updated - - -

That's fine, an admission you cannot come up with even one argument why they "deserve" it. Neither could I.

 

People can only become millionaires or billionaires by cheating those who made all of that money, out of their fair share. That is one reason Christ railed against the rich.

What the world needs is an end to millionaires and billionaires. Only then will the wished of god be fulfilled. For he created man, and gave man resources to be shared equally. But he left it up to us to do the right thing, and of course you cannot become rich and do that.

Rich people are evil. Period. For they do not deserve to hoard wealth, resources as others starve. If Christ does return, to rule for a thousand years on earth, you can bet your booty that he won't have any rich here, or any poor.

You cannot get rich without exploiting another human being, other human beings. The degree of wealth is the degree of exploitation. Yet the World, to use a NT term, worships the rich, which shows us that a rich man would have great difficulty in getting into heaven. The repubs worship and hold in high regard the rich, as do their voters. Capitalism is nothing more than the tool for a few to be rich, by exploitation.

There are no Christian capitalists. It is an oxymoron, just as there are no republican Christians. Capitalism is the system used in Hell. For it was devised by satan himself, on behalf of the greedy.

So I am rather glad that capitalism is doomed, and will implode. For it is like a cancer, upon this earth, destroying the very thing which life needs in order to thrive. The sooner we get rid of these greed driven men, the better. For they take most of what god gave to all of humanity, and think they have a right to do that. They gave themselves that right, as they give themselves the right to exploit other humans so they can become rich, and sit on their great hoard.

As the hoards of people were awaiting Pentacost, some were well off, many were poor. Yet God inspired those men of wealth to sell their property and give the proceeds to one of the apostles to distribute to care for all. When a married couple held back some of the proceeds for themselves, as they were still greedy, God struck both down dead. So, we can see HOW God wants humanity to be, and it sure wasn't capitalism, was it? Looks like some sort of socialism. God is obviously a socialist in nature. For he gave all of the earth's resources to the people he created, to share equally. But greedy men cannot share, but they can create a system to insure the greedy will be able to exercise their greed. And so capitalism was created.

 

Deserve means to be worthy of reward or punishment. It's not my responsibility to judge whether someone's kid is worthy of a reward, and it's not my right to complain if his parents take money out of their pocket to do so.

It's not your right either.






​

 

Disagree. The OP brought the issue of "deserving" into question. I appreciate you cannot come up with any reason why they deserve it, other than winning the Genetic Lottery.

 

People can only become wealthy by cheating others?

Wow. Let's start here.

First and foremost, I'm not religious in the slightest, and prefer that my politics and my government be separate from religious views. In fact, my constitution guarantees it. So what Christ would or wouldn't have done is immaterial.

Secondly. When did accumulation of wealth become a bad thing? Should people not be free to retain the fruits of their labor and accumulate wealth feely?

You seem to misunderstand that companies are not typically owned by their employees. That means the employees are not responsible for the investment and liabilities if the company fails. Similarly, they do not benefit monetarily with an equal share of profits if the company is successful. They agreed to delivery labor fit a pre established rate.

Whoever told you that if you accept a job fit a wage, you will get a percentage of profits lied to you.

 

so, to be clear, do you suggest that whatever monies that people like Steve Jobs, Sam Walton have when they die, should go to what.... the govt?
talk about eliminating incentive to work....

 

No, the parent is quite alive when he decides who to will his estate to. That decision was made by a living person, based on the value that individual decided that each heir deserves. As for the amount of love and comfort, no the amount may be the same - the pizza guy may even provide more love and comfort to his family - but it is up to his parents or grandparents to provide whatever they feel he is worth.

I'm really glad you chose to compare inheritance to a pizza delivery guy. That is a great comparison, but not in a way that you intended. Inheritance doesn't work like a wage or salary, so a comparison there, such as to a fry cook, isn't accurate or logical. On the other hand, an inheritance works very similar to tips. A person decides who to give a part or all of his estate to, and how much to give. Some people choose to give nothing or very a very tiny portion of their estate to family members and give the rest to charity, to non-relatives, even to cities or government organizations. Just like the way that a customer chooses if he wants to give a tip, who to tip and how much to tip. A tip isn't based on how good of a job you do or how deserving you may actually be, it is determined by how much the individual giving the tip decides they want to give - usually based on what they feel that the person's service was worth to them. Sometimes people get tips worth far more than I would think the service is worth, like the delivery guy who recently received a $1,000 tip for delivering two pizzas, but it isn't up to me to decide. It is up to the person giving the tip, and their opinion is the only one that matters.

The same is true of of an inheritance. The amount of an inheritance is based on what the giver decides to give - usually based on what that giver believes the heir is worth to them. The value is decided by the person writing the will, based on whatever they decide. Their opinion is the only one that matters.

 

You know what.

One simple question.

Without capitalism, what motivates people to be educated, gain skills, and work for the betterment of society? What is the incentive?

If you can answer that, we can have a logical debate.