Name one good thing religion has accomplished

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by clarkatticus, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

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    Well, we see how quickly this degenerated into tribalism. Everyone so quick to grab the crutch of religion and hobble through life instead of thinking on their own and standing tall. Calling Secular Humanism a result of Christianity is like calling the police a result of crime. Coffee (and sugar) both came from Muslim areas but I doubt there is any reference to either in the Koran so I am going to assume a human discovered their uses and thus no religious impetus. Calling Abrahamic religion the apex of thought is a little arrogant, I am sure some the other 3000 gods worshipped today by billions are offended. "Those who have never had faith can't truly understand those that have it" is the most specious argument of all. Really? When was the last time you took a critical look at your own belief system? Never I am sure. If you are new to your faith trust you have always been looking for something to justify your own inadequacies, if you have had your faith all your life it was the faith indoctrinated into you at a young age by peer pressure or family. I was sent to the Catholic church at a young age, I questioned it from the beginning. When I grew to have confidence in myself I understood I was an atheist. I often wonder what the world would be like if the Apostles Mark and John had written the Harry Potter series. I can see you guys running around with brooms trying to catch a "quiddich"-don't know it that's spelled right, only saw half the movie with my grandchild.
     
  2. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Its not about you...

    You nevertheless, know all about Jesus and the Bible.
    At least, to the degree that you, too, await however reluctantly, for a messiah you never believe will return.

    When he does, you will be convicted against yourself as the world will change and either leave you out, or bring you inside the next evolution.
     
  3. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Humanism "peaches" the exact same things which Paul taught, if one checks out 1Co 13:

    Abraham Maslow's capitalized 15 Characteristics of a Sane Person are compared here with 1Co13:4-9;13)

    1Cor. 13:4 (The altruistic attitude), charity, suffereth long (IN MEDITATIONS), and is kind (IN ITS ACCEPTANCE OF SELF AND OTHERS); charity, (Altruism), envieth not (BY RESISTING SUCH ENCULTURATION); charity, (the altruistic attitude), vaunteth not itself (BUT IS COMPASSIONATE), is not puffed up (BUT IS NATURAL, SPONTANEOUS AND SIMPLE),

    1Cor. 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly (BUT IS CREATIVE), seeketh not her own (IN A MORE EFFICIENT VIEW OF REALITY), is not easily provoked (IT HAS A BIG BROTHER ATTITUDE), thinketh not evil (BUT DISCRIMINATES BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL);

    1Cor. 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity (BUT IS UNHOSTILE AND OPEN-MINDED IN HUMOR), but rejoiceth in the truth (THAT IS PROBLEM CENTERED);

    1Cor. 13:7 Beareth all things (IN A DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE), believeth all things (AS REGARDS THE PEAK MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE), hopeth all things (THROUGH PERSONAL AUTONOMY), endureth all things (IN A CONTINUED FRESHNESS OF APPRECIATION).

    1Cor. 13:8 Charity, (by which is meant Altruism), never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, (human predictions), they shall fail; whether there be tongues (as evidence of our inner subconscious psyche), they shall cease (as we come to realize that the source is pyschological); whether there be knowledge (as it may be understood at this time, the 1st century AD), it shall vanish away (in the new paradigms to come).

    1Cor. 13:13 And now abideth faith (BY SELF ESTEEM, NOT SELFISHNESS), hope (THROUGH AUTONOMY OF FREE WILL CHOICE), charity (IN ALTRUISM), these three; but the greatest of these is charity, (ALTRUISM).
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is not a correction.

    And from your response, I think it merely demonstrates the point I made with regard to those who never had faith attempting to understand those who have it.

    OTOH, the lamentable fact that faith trumps fact, does lend credence to your comment.
    Of course one man's reality is another man's fairy tale - and that doesn't necessarily only apply to religion.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    violent agreement.
     
  6. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

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    You act like the bible is the first reference for all human thought and revelation. All thought known to the bible is found in older sources. The 10 commandments? Really? Like that takes some kind of deity to convince humanity to do things that are it's own best interest. Usually, religion does just the opposite.
     
  7. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    2¢.

    Faith (religion) gives something to people to hope for above the tangible and the mundane:
    Hebrews 11:1 (bible hub.com)
    New International Version: Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

    Religion also explains how the world was created which human science is not powerful enough to discover/know.

    Without the confidence that creation is indeed real, many geniuses of olden year would not have achieved the greatness that we revere (be mud stuck in existential crisis). Without laws written and inspired by the old testament 10 commandments, mayhem would have prevailed. Creation is the reason why sharks, lions and tigers do not rule this world.

    And the best explanations for creation are from religion (primarily Christianity IMHO).
     
  8. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    Please give credit to far sighted interest over near sighted ones.

    Smoking a cigarette and exercising both BENIFIT the 'user': smoking gives IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION, exercised gives delayed gratification (e.g. longer life, resistance to diabetes/ chronic illness, lower healthcare costs etc etc).

    Everyone, including most chronic smokers agree that it takes some skill to choose the latter (delayed gratification) than the former (smoking), ditto the 10 commandments which even the most interlectually advanced monkey / dolphin clans do not quite practise (if at all maybe 1% because others are watching (do not steal the dominant monkey's gal)).

    As a humble human being, please give credit where credit is due. Things could be MUCH MUCH worse when we don't...
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't like to say what I think of people who find this incredible world "mundane". Damn it I will. Precious and childlike. There it is.

    Without laws in a sinister old book written by middle eastern goat herders, sharks would rule the world? someone missed their meds :)

    You think the explanation that an invisible sky monster named yahweh coughed up the universe (for no particular reason) the best and most likely? Of all the zillions of possibilities, it just HAPPENS to be the one you like best?

    oh yeah, science isn't "powerful" enough? I think you meant to say science doesnt do power, and doesn't do claiming to know something it doesn't. furthermire .... no one knows, so your god is exactly as "powerful" as science. actually way less, since science built your computer, while your god does sweet FA.
     
  10. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On the contrary, it's mostly to do with the lasting after effects of centuries of foreign colonialism and imperialism, the involvement of borders drawn and wars waged by those foreign powers without reference to the local population, and the past application of an all too common belief that 'keeping the natives backward, ignorant and uneducated' was somehow a good thing to do. It has nothing much to do with religion at all.
     
  11. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Religion ended slavery in the U.S., and was a major pusher of the U.S. Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.
     
  12. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    How so? Opinion or do you have some sources to cite?
     
  13. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    I know many Muslims prefer to lay blame the West, but I'm not one of them. The Arabs had conquered the West (some of it) and were the "first world" at one time. But the West, in the long turn, turned the tables over.

    Yes, colonialism and imperialism are culprits, but they are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. More importantly, they are long gone, and the Muslim world seemed to have been doing better when they were present.

    Islam is a complete way of life. It commands you to be just, but there is no justice in Muslim lands- there is instead mob rule and rampant corruption. Islam teaches you to stay on the straight path, but Muslim world is fraught with extremism. One of the most important virtues in Islam is patience and perseverance, but these two are not present in the Muslim world. Islam encourages the pursuit of knowledge, but it has been centuries since a scientific discovery has come out of the Islamic world. And so forth...

    You claim it has nothing to do with religion at all- that may be the case if we are talking about a set of beliefs that one believes in, and some rituals that he often engages in. But we are taking about Islam, and submitting to God in Islam means submitting to everything He expects from us in how we live our lives.
     
  14. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Ever hear of William Wilberforce? No? Surely you've heard of John Adams?
     
  15. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    So two people = Religion ended slavery in the U.S.?
     
  16. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

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    quite the student of history, eh? perhaps you should read the sermons from the South. the bible clearly endorses slavery, rape, war crimes and random violence in the name of god so often in the old testement that all you have to do is google slavery/bible and a an infinite number of pages turn up on the subject.
     
  17. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

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    I don't know if this a troll or if you are that stupid. There were laws long before the bible, people achieved more from science than any other human endeavor, nothing from religion. I am sorry you need an imaginary deity to enhance your enthusiasm for life, what science can not explain I am content to wait rather than make up fiction, it excites me to know that more is out there to learn. explanation for creation? only for the simple minded.
     
  18. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Those are just two whose names I thought you would recognize. Google is your friend.
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't matter. The impetus of the anti-slavery movement was Christian. The same with the civil rights movement. Yes, there were religious people opposed to it, but that doesn't take away from the fact that religion is what powered the anti-slavery and civil rights movements.
     
  20. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Basic history. If you don't know that, then you need to take American history again.

    If you're not American, here is a good digest.
    http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/abolitionist-movement
     
  21. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Rev Martin Luther King was the final martyr for Civil Rights in 1968.
     
  22. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Colonialism is one of the 12 forms of economics were are possible.
    Each can be criticized and each has benefits, too.

    Colonialism brings improvements, capital, and modernization, which finally allows the nation to become self reliant as happened in India, for instance.

    None of the 12 economic systems serves everyone best, and different nations are benefited according to the culture and resources.
    But some places are without resources, and even colonialism is avoid.
    This is terrible in many African communities and places in S America, too.
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    society.
     
  24. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Slavery ended in the US DESPITE religion, not BECAUSE of religion!
    Just think of the thousands of years of slavery that could have been avoided (the rapes of children, the torture, the killings, the splitting up of families, etc.) if Jesus had just said "the (OT) is all wrong, slavery is almost the worse crime imaginable, Moses and Abraham and David were immoral for having slaves"....instead of accepting it and never speaking out against it, like he did.
     
  25. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Correct.

    Torture (Mohammad approved.)
    Beheadings (Mohammad approved, 600-900 in one day alone at Banu Qurayza, making ISIS look like girl scouts.)
    Rape of captives (Mohammad approved, look it up.)
    Sex with kids (Mohammad approved, and Muslims on this forum refuse to say that was immoral.)
    Hatred of Jews etc. (Mohammad approved.)
    Beating women (Mohammad approved in Q4:34.)
    Supremacism for the Muslims (Mohammad approved in Q9:5 and Q9:29.)
    Kill people who have sex outside marriage (Mohammad approved.)
    Kill black dogs ((Mohammad did this.)
    Women are less intelligent than men (Mohammad approved.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    A smart man would leave a religion that refuses to change it texts that ENCOURAGE SLAVERY. Wilberforce was an intellectual coward in that sense.
     

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