First Contact

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by DominorVobis, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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  2. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I was going to watch this, but when i saw the pro-mo, it looked like to much "one-sided" biased bullcrap to me. Its like showing people pictures on only one side of a page, and expecting them to believe there are NO pictures on the other side. That is the kind of "one-sided" biased crap we don't need the media to be producing, as that series was clearly demonstrating a bias towards non Aboriginal Australians.

    The Australian & Aboriginal people don't need to be "forced" together under an umbrella of lies, deceit, and biased crap.
     
  3. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The perceptions aren't a revelation but I suppose it does highlight some of the misconceptions, albeit not convincingly though I wouldn't think. It will be interesting to see what the following episodes throw up. Interesting group of participants, which I think demonstrates the diverse views and attitudes in Australia.
     
  4. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully First Contact will hit the Australia Plus network soon.
     
  5. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it be nice for a change to see an unbiased documentary about a group of Aboriginal people being brought into mainstream white Australian society, and see them being confronted and challenged about "their" preconceptions and misconceptions about white Australians.

    Why are white Australian always being demonised as being the "only people" with preconceptions and misconceptions about another group of people?

    That whole show stunk of Aboriginal people having misconceptions and preconceptions about white Australians, but none of them were brought to task about it.
     
  6. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    The Aboriginals know a lot more about us then we do about them. For example, did you know that ...

    Labour force participation 2001: 52% of Indigenous people aged 15 and over were in the labour force compared with 63% of the total population in the same age group.
    Income 2001: The average weekly household income for Indigenous people ($364) was only 62% of that for non-Indigenous people ($585)
    Home ownership 2001: 32% of Indigenous people own or are buying their own homes compared with 71% of non-Indigenous Australians

    Protection policies

    Indigenous survivors of frontier conflicts were moved onto reserves or missions. From the end of the nineteenth century, various State and Territory laws were put in place to control relations between Aboriginal people and other Australians. Under these laws, protectors, protection boards and native affairs departments segregated and controlled a large part of the Aboriginal population. It has been estimated that the Aboriginal population during the 1920s had fallen to only about 60,000 from perhaps 300,000 or even one million people in 1788

    Citizenship

    In May 1967, a Constitutional referendum to include Indigenous people in the national census and to enable the Commonwealth Government to make laws on Aboriginal affairs passed with a 'Yes' vote of almost 91%.

    Before 1967, Aboriginal Affairs was a state responsibility and the Commonwealth Government was only in charge of Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. After 1967, the Commonwealth Government shared power over Aboriginal Affairs with the States.

    You see it is us that have things wrong.

    Take my girl. One of Sydney's most respected child care workers, fully qualified, normal process not a special Aboriginal program so no one could (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about it.

    Hundreds of times when new clients have brought in their children for the first time, they have shown their objections (some quite vocally and obvious) to her being their childs carer. Every one, without exception, within weeks has had a change in heart. Not only is she an extremely good child care worker, she has in innate sense when it comes to children. I have never seen a teacher getting such response from the kids when she arrives and leaves. She has had dozens of greetings when I have been around from well to do, suited men and women as she walks around the streets.

    You judge Kooris by the bad ones, and you unwillingness to even watch a show that may show something you do not want to see shows your narrow mindedness and desire to hold on to your assumptions rather than to see the other side.

    Most docos on Aboriginals have been biased against them, if this ONE is biased the other way, then good on it. The media is too happy to show the bad side, but when it shows the good side it is biased. ANY RESPECT I had for you has gone ... totally ... 100%

    Any comment you make now on any subject will be looked on as immaterial. Show us you are willing to at least look at something before you tear it apart.
     
  7. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    It has been rather biased and full of tripe, pushes an agenda that really has no place in the modern world. As ernie said.... "the thing I dont understand about racism is that black fallas are black fellers own worst enemy" .....
    When people stop with the "oh i cant get a job cos 200 odd years ago my ancestors where hard done by" and the "I drink and beat my wife cos its all whiteys fault" then maybe just maybe this country has a chance.
    People, no matter what shade of skin, need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions and INACTIONS.
     
  8. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    The documentary seems to have been created to highlight modern and current misconceptions and preconception by white Australians towards Aboriginals; not past ones. So I'm not getting into another debate with you over "who did what to whom" in the past.

    You state: "...The Aboriginals know a lot more about us then we do about them." You make this extraordinary assumption like it was the gospel, and an absolute fact without any current or modern evidence, besides raking up issues that happened numerous decades ago.

    Excuse me for being ignorant, but it seems somewhat self-centered and biased to suggest that all white Australians have the same misconception and preconceptions towards Aboriginals today, that they held decades ago.

    With all due respect to yourself and your partner. I personally believe that the majority of Aboriginal people know "nothing" about white Australian history or our cultures. You have to remind yourself, and the Aboriginal people have to remind themselves, that white Australian history, culture and ancient traditions didn't just start in 1788 with Captain James (bloody) Cook. Our white Australian history, culture and ancient traditions pre-date James Cook by many thousands of years. So we are not just some new kids on the block without any ancient culture, traditions and heritage of our own.

    How many Aboriginal people really know about our ancient history, and endless personal sacrifice and struggles for freedom, democracy and human rights against constant invaders and conquerors, hell-bent on killing and enslaving the conquered populations.

    Who helped my ancestors, and came to their aid, when their villages and towns were raided and burnt to the ground; their men and elderly slaughtered, and women and children raped and sold into life-long slavery?

    Did they just roll-over and expect an endless supply of sympathy and hand-outs - I think not?

    I think the biggest misconceptions and preconceptions comes for the Aboriginal people thinking that white Australian history and culture starts in 1788, and everything before that is a blank slate.

    I'm not denying injustices were not committed against the Aboriginal people, but you can only make excuses regarding these decade old injustices for so long, until you have to confront reality head-on.

    I understand perfectly what you are saying in regards to the biased attitudes and preconceptions towards your partner. Myself and my wife would like $2 for every time someone has asked us why we employ two "coons" over white "aussies". Their words in describing our indigenous employees, not ours.

    I did watch the episode where the young girl confronted the Aboriginal people about their drug and alcohol abuse, and squalid living conditions. She asked them why they were blaming the situation and circumstances and not taking any personal accountability and responsibility for their own personal choices and decisions. She was instantly shot-down with a barrage of excuses. The next scene moved onto a woman living in the Pilliga, working in the mining industry. She conveyed a heart warming story of personal tragedy and circumstances, and admitted she made personal decisions to change things, and make life better for herself. See the contradictions?

    1) If an Aboriginal person is willing to take personal accountability and responsibility for their own actions without blaming stiuations and circumstances, and succeeds at doing something, Then the white Australian system must be working.

    2) If an Aboriginal person doesn't want to take responsibility and accountability for their own actions, then its alright to make excuses and blame the situation and circumstances. Then the white Australian system is failing.

    Hell D.V, its impossible NOT to win given a massive contradiction like that mate. Win if you do something, and win if don't - what bloody more do you really want?
     
  9. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Well it might have busted a few stereotypes.
     
  10. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    "Stereotypes"? Do you mean Aboriginal people admitting "they" elect to live in decrepit outback communities that they cannot economically sustain on their own? Then they blame white Australians for not financially supporting unsustainable areas where "they" want to live. I would like to live on an Island with the beach at my door-step. Does that mean through making a personal choice to live on an Island with the beach at my door-step, represent other people now have to financially sustain my personal unsustainable lifestyle, and I don't have to take any personal accountability or responsibility for the decision I make?

    It wasn't very reassuring for the viewer, when the superintendent obviously didn't understand or know anything about the people he was incarcerating.

    1) The superintendent told Bodine that the inmates were all incarcerated because of driving offenses. He told Bodine that Aboriginal culture is not like Australian culture. He said: Aboriginal people have to respect their family and elders, and cannot refuse a request made by them, and if they asked someone without a drivers licence to drive them somewhere, they would have to fulfil that request as part of their culture.

    2) When Jasmine asked Bob if he would re-offend, Bob said: NO. When Jasmine asked Bob, if a family member or elder asked him to drive them somewhere unlicensed, Bob said: " he wouldn't respect an Aboriginal family member or elder, and would tell them to drive the car themselves, as he is not going back to jail for them". As Bob indicated, he is now willing to make a personal choice in not going back to prison, verses obeying Aboriginal culture.

    Do you see the contradictions again?

    Do they really have to respect their Aboriginal culture by committing illegal offences because their family and elders ask them too, or do they just make an individual personal choice, and do it for the sake of it?

    As Bodine has been saying from the beginning of the series, somewhere, it has to start with personal choice, accountability and responsibility for your own actions, and not just always blaming the situation and circumstances.

    The only two elements of truth that escaped from that entire documentary came from:

    1) the women of Fitzroy Crossing, who identified the problem (alcohol) that was destroying their community, and took personal responsibility and accountability to ban full strength alcohol in their community, and to create a women's/children's refuge center to combat the physical and psychological violence.

    2) The family who were supporting young children pyschologically damaged by alcohol consumption that took personal accountability and responsibility by delivering messages to the community on the severe dangers to an unborn child, coupled with alcohol consumption.

    The community of Fitzroy Crossing should be congratulated for doing something constructive, and being such positive role models for the Aboriginal people. It was refreshing not hear anyone making excuses. They identified a problem, and they set to work taking personal responsibility to rectify the problem - alcoholism within their community.

    It was interesting to note that all the candidates picked for this documentary previously had issues of psychological trauma during their lives. I suppose its easy to influence a group of highly vulnerable and susceptible people starting a journey already looking for answers, and brain-wash them to a particular idea or philosophy - religious cults & sects do it all the time.
     
  11. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, stereotypes were broken.

    Yes, the superintendent was generalising and his generalisation about obligations was correct. The exception proves the rule in this case. The man who said he wouldn't obey an obligation in those circumstances was being perfectly reasonable, I think his rels would understand,
     
  12. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    So accept and agree with YOUR racism or lose respect.....????

    REALLY NOW?
     
  13. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    If his "rels" would/could understand the consequences of him being sent to prison for driving "them" around while he was unlicensed. Then "why" did they allow him to drive them around unlicensed the first place, if the Aboriginal people have such a "STRONG" family bond, like we are led to believe they have?

    Its not like this was a one-off incident. There are hundreds in prison for driving offenses, so it would seem there is a breakdown in family respect.

    But did not that documentary constantly try and shove down our throats, that "RESPECT" is the basis and foundation of Aboriginal culture and family?

    No. The superintendent was NOT generalising at all. He was stipulating a fact to Bodine about Aboriginal culture and family lifestyles , when Bodine asked him why so many Aboriginal people keep re-offending for the same driving crimes.
     
  14. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    The stereotypes I dislike are these:

    1. Negative - drunks, lazy, crooks etc.
    2. Positive - innocent, naive, perfect etc.

    The truth is always messier but preferable, because if you're going to manage something then it's best not to do so with stereotypes firmly fixed in place.
     
  15. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    I had a different reaction to you. Which wouldn't be surprising considering how we align ourselves so differently. I really think it was a side of a page we so seldom see.We see the other side of the page (the negativity) so very much more.

    It was wonderful to see so many positive role models. For me, it was inspirational.
     
  16. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    The cinematography was beautiful. And those unadulterated landscapes breathtaking.

    Rachel Perkins along with this series, produced The First Australians, an extraordinary account of Aboriginal history. Education is optional, I guess. But I have learned much from both series. What others may dismiss, I find really powerful. You know, we don't suddenly just 'arrive' in this one spot. It was history that led us to this place and it is in the legacy of history that we are here. And understanding history, acknowledging history goes some way towards loosening our ignorance. As was said many times in the series, it is 'complex'. And also, you have to be 'open' to something to begin to understand.
     
  17. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I will use the term "brain-washing series" from now on, because I refuse to recognise or acknowledge it as a factual and correct documentary. It perpetuated so many contradictions, that the series did "nothing" to dispel the "stereotypical" views most Australians have about Aboriginals. In fact, the series reinforced many ideas Australians have about Aboriginals, in that they make their own personal choices like everyone else, and make excuses for those bad decisions by blaming situations and circumstances.

    I don't think trying to entrap or brain-wash a group of Australians who already had psychological problems into believing Aboriginal propaganda, is a moral or ethic code of conduct from a professional point of view
     
  18. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    .........................................................................
     
  19. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    What side of the page are you speaking about? A group of adults being commended for getting off their own arse's and doing something about problems like everyone else has to do. Or another group being commended for sitting around on their arse's doing nothing to solve problems, and allowed to make excuses for their own personal BAD decisions they made, and allowed to blaming the situation and circumstances for those decisions?
     
  20. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I agree about history, but there is much about Australian history that the Aboriginal people don't know. For example; Australian history and culture extends beyond 1788.

    Shouldn't learning about different people's historical cultures extend beyond a "one-way" street of Australians learning about Aboriginal culture and history?

    What do the majority of Aboriginal people know about white Australian history, culture and traditions before 1788? My bet is nothing, but they expect all Australians to learn about theirs.
     
  21. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what role the "law enforcement officer" had back in Sydney (?) was but if he was a copper then he would have had plenty of stereotyped views of indigenous people from his work. The problem there is that the stereotype is built on personal experiences and shared and strengthened with other cops who experience the same thing (sometime with exactly the same individuals or groups of indigenous people). I know it, I've been there. The first time I began to see an indigenous person as something other than a potential problem was when I was transferred to Coober Pedy. And then it took another, wiser, copper I worked with to help me open my eyes. No, we didn't act like social workers, if someone deserved to be locked up they got locked up, but working in town I got to know a lot of indigenous people as people, not just as problems. There was no Road to Damascus for me, more like a stumble through a thorny path in the bush before the realisation that what I saw wasn't just down to either personal choices or some sort of determinism.

    I don't see any brainwashing, just some revelation. I have to ask why the woman - was it Sandy? - who quit felt she had to do so - overload of cognitive dissonance perhaps?
     
  22. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I did my last part of high school in Australia between 1965 and 1967. Bloody hell I feel like ancient history myself! :oldman: But I remember my history lessons because it was one of my favourite subjects. The history of Australia stated in 1788. Before that we studied English history and European history and even a bit of North American history. That was it. Even Bennelong didn't get a mention. Chris Pyne would be orgasming over that.

    And I didn't get properly educated about pre-1788 Australia until 2003. I remember the year because I spent about nine months conducting training after having attended training in indigenous culture. The training I did was with an indigenous copper and it went surprisingly well. Sure there were a few lardheads taking the (*)(*)(*)(*) at the start but by the end of the day many of them admitted they learned a lot about a culture - many cultures I know but I'm trying to keep it concise - they knew very little to nothing about, but with the members of which they interacted on a daily basis, usually in a conflict situation.

    Again, not brainwashing, just revelation. If you've been exposed to indigenous Australia via your history lessons at school then you were far better educated than me cd.
     
  23. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the education system in Australia during the 60's and 70's basically taught an overview about Australian history. History prior to 1788 was also a general overview.

    Doesn't this beg the question. If the majority of Australian people educated in the 60's and 70's don't know much about their own cultural history and ancestry, then how would indigenous Australians in the same generations know anything about it?

    The Aboriginal people are always banning on by saying that Australians know anything about their culture, history or traditions, but can't we say the same about the Aboriginal people in regards to them knowing nothing about our cultures, history's, and traditions?

    Why are Australians being forced to accept and acknowledge Aboriginal culture, history and traditions, when they couldn't care less about accepting and acknowledging Australian history, culture and traditions? Don't we share the same country?

    We employ two indigenous Australians. Male aged 24, and been employed for 3 years. female aged 40, and been employed for 10 years. Both have their own unique stories of before and after, but the one consistent attribute they both have in common with their journey, is that; "they" independently made personal decisions to change their environment and situation, which led them to changing their behaviour.

    We are not stupid people, and its time we stopped other stupid people leading us around by the nose. We know that you can chuck a truck load of money at a problem, but unless the individual person is willing and ready to change, then you have just wasted your money and your time. I believe the adage is called: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

    Its simply unrealistic nonsense for the indigenous people to advocate they have the intellectual capacity to live sustainable independent traditional lifestyles away from Australians, but then expect Australians to help them rectify the problems caused by these "supposed" independent traditional lifestyles away from Australians.

    The majority of the Aboriginal people CHOSE to wandered off into these god forsaken outback rural communities to live a traditional lifestyle independent from Australians. Australians helped them by spending $billions on new housing, new schools, medical centers, and community shops. Twenty years later, under Aboriginal independent self-sufficient lifestyles, these communities turned into alcoholic decrepit ghetto's.

    I understand that the Aboriginal people have an ancient spiritual connection to the land, but does it really take a genius to understand and comprehend that this spiritual connection doesn't represent sustainability for a modern community? Every spiritual culture throughout history, at some time, has had to adjust their spiritual beliefs to incorporate the modernisation of their communities and societies. So why should it be any different with the Aboriginal people? Why should Australians be financially burdened supporting an Aboriginal spiritual belief system that doesn't work in modern times?

    If the Aboriginal people want to revert back to being hunter gathers living off the land to live under their traditional spiritual system, then that is fine by me. But I have a problem with financially supporting someone who wants to live by a spiritual system that doesn't work.

    If their cultural and spiritual belief is having a negative and detrimental effect on their society. Then isn't it up to them to change it, like every other culture has done?
     
  24. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    I am so pleased that you have waded in here. I have nothing but admiration for the copper that went on First Contact. I am sure it would have needed approval from his superiors and I think it was a great move for all concerned. I was very interested in your view.

    I was raised to have the utmost respect for the police force and over the years I have come to know a lot as good friends, even being the "best man" for one. He however was extremely racist, not just Aboriginals but Asians and Middle Eastern as well. Due to that fact our friendship has diminished over the years.

    I have however over the past 5 years seen another side of the coin. For most of my life I have been somewhat rebellious, I have ridden motor bikes and driven fast cars, always hotted up to some degree. But I am a good driver and do not drive like a hoon, so in the 40 years of my driving career, I have only been randomly pulled over about 20 or so times. 90% of those random searches have been when I have an Aboriginal in my car and during the past 4 years, so yes, stereotyping is alive and well.

    Some people complain that the Aboriginals do not know Australian history, well they do, too well. It is their history we do not learn. No they do not know most of the history of the dozens of nations that have come here seeking a better life, neither do I. I am from Italian and Scottish ancestry and what I know of there history is basic primary school history and movies.

    It is totally beyond my understanding though, why it is even in need of mention that the Aboriginals have not learnt the dozens of histories of other countries, the homelands of the people that came to Australia to share our good lifestyle, when the people, the education system and the government have no interest in the history of them, the first Australians (still surviving) and undoubtedly, the oldest and longest living human civilisation on the face of the earth.
     
  25. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    Most Aboriginals don't work. According to the 2001 census, 52% of Indigenous people aged 15 and over were in the labour force.
    All Aboriginals live in public housing slums. According to the 2001 census, 32% of Indigenous people own or are buying their own homes.
    The majority of the Aboriginal people CHOSE to wandered off to live in the bush using traditional lifestyle. Contrary to what many people think (and to the stereotype of Australian advertising) the majority of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people live in Australia’s eastern states and not in the remote desert regions of the continent. In 2006 the majority (75%) of Aboriginal people lived in cities and non-remote areas. 32% lived in major cities, 21% in inner regional areas and 22% in outer regional areas. Only a quarter lived in remote (9%) and very remote (15%) areas .

    Even before we displaced them, the majority of Aborigines lived on the East coast, around Sydney, Newcastle, Taree were highly populated. It is us that pushed them from the coast into the outback, so we could use their land for our use, leaving them nothing.
     

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