The United States is NOT a Christian Nation...

Right and wrong are not matters for the state to consider. Many opposing views exist on what is right and wrong, and it not the proper role for the state to determine what is. It is the proper role of the state to maintain an orderly society, and that is its only proper role. People left Europe in the first place because they disagreed with the precepts of that particular state religion, so they moved here and immediately established their own "state religions" within their own local settlements. What is limited in the Constitution is not ONLY the creation of state religion, but ANY law which RESPECTS an establishment of religion.

 

In practice I think that the vast majority - like over 99% - disagree with you. Though in theory I like how you describe the role of government for the most part. There are just some issues when the "right and wrong"/morality and the maintenance of an orderly society mix. Many would say that the maintenance of an orderly society requires making just such determinations that you say are beyond the role of the government, such that what you say is not the role of the government seemingly inevitably becomes the "necessary and proper" role of the government.

 

The large majority of Americans -- 77% of the adult population -- identify with a Christian religion, including 52% who are Protestants or some other non-Catholic Christian religion, 23% who are Catholic, and 2% who affiliate with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Another 18% of Americans do not have an explicit religious identity and 5% identify with a non-Christian religion.


but but but
Statistics sucks. The government, the press, everybody uses statistics as an evidence. Yeh, it looks good but what about real life? In real life the majority of Americans is egoists looking after number one.

 

Christians like all other religions first need to prove there is a God. Until they do practice all these fairy tales behind closed doors. I think it is time to consider the people who believe in something that does not exist as mentally handicapped. People who believe in some fake being are not evolved. The ones that make their living off of these mental midgets are con artist plain and simple

 

Whatever the founders may have thought about issues in private isn't really that interesting. Firstly, because they obvious differ between themselves, and secondly because it's not their private thoughts which are the law, but the constitution they wrote. And the constitution clearly states that there shall be no law respecting an establishment of religion. It does not say what you want it to say.

They didn't mean to disqualify religion from taking part of the political arena either. If religious views are automatically disqualified and non-religious views are not, that means the government is taking an anti-religious stance, which is a violation of secularism, and a violation of equality under law, and a violation of individual liberties. As I've said, it's none of the government's business to label some views as religious and then disqualify them. It's as arbitrary, dangerous and wrong as the government labeling views socialist and then banning them. It's none of the government's business.

Laws based on religion are not neccesarily laws that directly benefit an establishment of religion. This is quite obvious. The prohibition was enacted on religious grounds, as were bans and restrictions on same-sex marriage and abortions. And religion also played a part in the civil rights movement, and many other political causes. Your view that government should disqualify any religious views automatically is thus absurd, and the history of the united states shows that very few people agree with you.

In response to the boldened: Exactly, which is why it's not the role of the government to label views as religious and then disqualify them. Religious views are to be as free to participate in any political processes as any other views are.

 

Ya , but isn't it fun to point out all the horrible things this country has done and watch christians try to find excuses for it ???

If christians claim this is their country they are responsible for every ugly nasty thing it's done or will do

And, if it's a christian country why can't their god create more jobs?

 

Did you even read the abstract?

 

Why did you cut off the quote mid sentence? The rest was "but there are many good reasons to believe they were."

Oh, that's why you cut the sentence in half.

 

For many social-conservatives the nation is the "Church" as many believe the Supreme Law of the Land is the Bible and not the US Constitution.

 

Only the Christian 1/2 of the Bible says that. The Old Testament is derived from the Jewish Torah and the Jews don't believe in Jesus.

 

The fabrication of "reasons" after the fact doesn't change the facts. Christians try to rationalize anything and everything they disagree with. As I noted "Christian-Diesm" was invented by Christians and they have certainly fabricated reasons after the fact to support this non-sense statement. A person that doesn't believe in a "personal god" (i.e. a diest) doesn't believe in any religious texts where they proclaim a personal god. Christianity expressly establishes the existance of a "personal god" that the diest doesn't, by definition, believe in.

Whether those identified as "diests" were truly diests is of course a matter of discussion but that doesn't change the fact that if they were a diest then they didn't believe in Christianity or any other organized religion. They were secular philosophers without any belief in a personal god or any gods that intervened in the affairs of mankind.

I would suggest you read Jefferson's Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

Jefferson appeciated the philosophy but removed the "religion" from the New Testament because he was a diest.

 

Yeah, that would be the one established after Jesus returns. Which would become relevant to our lives if Jesus were to return. Islam dictates the form of government and laws to be applied for all times.

 

You claim

And Ive shown that "Christian Deism" was established in England prior to Jefferson, NOT "after the fact". And clearly Jefferson doesn't meet your personal standards of Christianity, according to Jefferson,

"I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others".

 

Biblical doctrine doesn't require membership in any "organized religion" in order to "believe in Christianity". "Organized religion", Churches, require membership in the organization. Not the biblical doctrine of Christianity.

 

Exactly, he was a christian deist. What's the problem here? Might I point out that he didn't make a Jefferson koran. Do you know why?

 

England, as with the other European monarchies, was an official Christian monarchy based upon the Divine Right of Kings. A Christian monarchy and the "Divine Right of Kings" was officially rejected ideologically when America was founded and the United States was founded upon secular and not sectarian government. What a bunch of Christians believed in England has absolutely nothing to do with American thought. All your point brings to light is the fact that Christians in England invented a definition of "Christain Deism" which is exactly what I stated. The term Christian-Deist remains an oxymoron based upon the definitions of the two words. There is no possibility of Christian-Deism by definition.

The belief that the United States is a "Christian nation" is disputed by the very fact that we have a secular and not a sectarian government. The founders of America rejected any religious foundation finding that historically all religions impose tyranny and are therefore immoral.

 

Deists reject a "personalized god" and therefore rejects any "religious" writings that are assumed to be from men that created for neferious and/or ulterior reasons as they seek to deceive the reader by stating or implying that which is not true. The Deist rejects any supernatural nature for Jesus, Thor, and/or Zeus that were all portrayed as gods in writing and tradition because they are all the inventions of men.

 

No, Jefferson was a philosopher that appreciated works of philosophy but also found fault with many of them. He was not a Christian as he didn't believe in the Christian religion. Of note we don't even know if any of the statements attributed to Jesus even originated with Jesus and at best they would be paraphrased as they weren't written down at the time the statements were made. There are no actual transcriptions of any of the statements Jesus made. Only letters written (by unknown authors) decades after his supposed death.

Jefferson had an highly annotated copy of the Koran in his library and it has even been used for the swearing in of Rep Keith Ellison, a Muslim representing the 5th district of Minnesota, to the US House of Representatives. The belief that Jefferson did not study the Koran is false based upon Jefferson's personal library copy of the Koran.

 

All the time? Please share these incidents.

 

It is because all of the founding fathers were Christian and founded it on Christian princapals,Freedom of Religion is not in the constitution only freedom of Expression which does not cover religion therefore people have no right to be Atheist,Jewish,Muslim, or any Non-Christian religion

 

You must understand that christian can be defined more broadly than what you do here.

I didn't claim he didn't study the koran. My point is that he's a christian deist, not a e.g. muslim one. Deism is not, as you try to paint it, a whole new religion completely separate from others. It's clearly connected with christianity, in this case. Deism is a way to understand christianity. It's not a whole new religion. Jefferson, and other deists, were raised as christians, but didn't believe in everything mainstream christianity did. Deism, in this case, is better understood to be a subset of christianity, and a particular way of understanding it, just like any other of the numerous theological questions that divide christianity.

 

Well, ACTUALLY it DIRECTLY refutes your claim that

It was "created" by Christian Deist BEFORE Thomas Jefferson, in England. And you as the self appointed arbiter of who is and is not Christian (god you are so full of yourself) can claim Jefferson was not a Christian, but that doesn't change the fact that Jefferson said.

"I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others".

 

You should read Thomas Paines Common Sense and his use of Biblical doctrine to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of monarchs and the legitimacy of government of, by and for the people.

 

1; The freedom of religion is in the 1st amendment.
"Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

2; Most of the founding fathers were not Christian. A handful were practicing Christians, but there were several Deists, and there even some evidence of some being atheist.

 

By that logic slavery and segregation were Christian principles. Some of the more influential founding fathers were heavily influenced by the Enlightenment movement of the era... like Jefferson, a man who edited the Bible to remove all dogma and who also was instrumental in wording of the separation of Church and State.