Is it actually justifiable to be Islamophobic?

I didn't say anything about rape. I said they are commanded to "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers "until religion should only be for Allah"

[4.92] And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake,...

For the unbelievers....

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

Now, let us have a closer look at what the Quran says about the infidels

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)

Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)

When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)

Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:25)

Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)

The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)

Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)

The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:2

Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)

Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)

The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)

Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:2

Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)

Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)

The religion of peace huh?

 

actually.. it is about religious ideology, basically protestant Northern Ireland citizens don't want to be under catholic rule. Absolutely, the conflicts between Northern Ireland and Ireland is about religious ideology. That is undeniable

and the Quran only permits Muslims to kill when they are at risk at being killed themselves, or are already at war. There is no passage of any kind that permits them to kill innocent people, or to carry out unprovoked attacks on others

in every example you provided, if you research their full context you will find they are referring to times of conflict where the Muslims themselves were being attacked or already engaged in warfare

I don't have time to go over them all, but as a primary example..

(9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.


This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.

Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated. In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes (‘Banu Khuza’ah, Banu Mudlij, Banu Bakr, Banu Damrah, and Banu Sulaiim) that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities. Sadly after 4 months passed, the enemies of Islam continued their hostilities against the Muslims. Only then was Prophet Muhammadsa commanded by God to meet them in battle to defend Muslims and the religion of Islam.

Even in this situation the Quran states that if the enemies repent of their behavior and promise to fulfill their treaties, it becomes incumbent on Muslims to cease military action and forgive them. Unfortunately those who take this specific verse out of context fail to see that as the title Al-Taubah suggests, the main subject matter of the chapter is forgiveness and repentance.

https://www.alislam.org/egazette/updates/why-does-the-quran-say-that-infidels-should-be-killed/


in short, after they were attacked multiple times, they gave their attackers 4 months to stop their attacks, and only after their enemy refused did they declare war... and then in the in the following verses are said to give their enemy peace when they are ready to make a treaty

if you were educated to the subject you would have already known this.. but you are not, so you did not know

 

I spoke of religions, of which islam is but one religion of many. Most religions are not like islam. Stop defending your ridiculous and rash reply.

Then you are saying the biggest branch of christianity is just plain wrong. Why then can you treat the actions of sunnis to be representative of islam? If you can dismiss the actions of most of christianity as them merely interpreting the bible wrongly, the same can be said for islam. If we are to compare christianity and islam, it makes sense to compare the major branches of each religion. All of them have justified going to war in the name of god.

 

I'm always amazed at how some can explain away islam's evil. But I think that's the nature of a satanic religion.

 

Yes you did, and you claimed "religions are not inherently in conflict. Religions do not per definition have it as their goal to convert other people and become the dominant faith", when in fact that is precisely what Islamic doctrine dictates.

 

Where is this context you speak of? Look at all these verses, none of which are limited to 5 tribes.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

How dim are you, seriously? What I said is true. hinduism and celtic paganism are examples of religions which are not engaged in conflict with other religions, and which are not missionary, does not seek to convert and become the dominant faith. As I've said, most religions -ie, all religions which have existed- are more like hinduism and druidism than islam and christian. Missionary religions like the two latter are the exception, not the norm, when it comes to religions. Now stop this.

 

This gets old, you creating arguments and attributing them to me. If you can locate your nads, nancy, take a shot at responding to my actual statements.

- - - Updated - - -

You didn't limit your claims to hinduism and celtic paganism.

 

Well, my position is that you're making all this into a no true scotsman argument. The original point being that there's pletny of examples of christians going to war in the name of god.

I didn't limit myself to any particular religion, nor did i refer to any particular religion. I spoke of religions in general. What I say is true. It wasn't even in reponse to you, but to hailvictory.

 

Yes because it is the wrong religion because only Christ can give someone salvation

 

would it have been satanic if after Japan bombed pearl harbor the US told Japan that all they had to do was stop attacking us and we would leave them alone, and go as far as allowing them 4 whole months to cease their attacks?

better yet, was it satanic when we immediately declared war on them?

ALL those verses have a longer context than what you are displaying

You will find no verse in the Quran that permits Muslims to attack innocent people, each and every case in the Quran that permits Muslims to kill is after they themselves have been attacked, or are in danger of being harmed. There are no scriptures permitting unprovoked attacks

 

For the second time, Where is this context you speak of? Quote the verses. You wont find a one of them that is limited to 5 particular tribes. Killing idolaters "wherever you find them" isn't limited to 5 tribes. Fighting them "until religion should only be for Allah,", isn't limited to 5 tribes.

"Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak."

Not because they are members of one of 5 tribes but instead because they disbelieve.

"We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority"

Not because they are members of one of 5 tribes but instead because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority.

First action of the first Caliphate after Muhammads death was to wage the Wars of Apostasy. NOT against 5 tribes but instead against other tribes who stopped paying Zakat to Mecca after Muhammad died.

Almost all the verses I quoted do. Still waiting for this missing context you believe shows otherwise.

 

no, none of them do.. they're all single selected verses, but each verse in the Quran has an entire back story. I provided the back story to verse 9.5 as an example

As for your latest verse, it is stating to fight against those who fight for evil, and in the previous verse says to defend the oppressed from the oppressor (in short, don't fight for the oppressor, fight for the oppressed).. again, not permission to kill innocent people. No part of the Quran permits Muslims to kill innocent people

 

YOUR back story isnt context. We were looking for the context in the koran

 

It's not my back story, it's what is in the Quran, the Muslims were continuously being attacked (for 9 years) by the Meccans, so they were declaring war in self defense. The verse was not ordering Muslims to kill innocent people the way you are claiming. There is no part of the Quran that permits Muslims to kill innocent people

 

But the back story doesn't change the fact that the believers are commanded to "fight", "kill" "slay, and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers, "UNTIL religion should only be for Allah". Not because they are members of 5 tribes but instead because they are "those who disbelieve" "wherever you find them". And they weren't instructed to fight them UNTIL "they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful". It was convert or die for any and all idolaters. NOT, just 5 tribes. Within 80 years of Muhammads death they were waging Jihad in Spain to the west and Afghanistan to the east. 5 tribes my ass. It clearly applies to ALL unbelievers. Islamic Scholars, more aware of this back story than you, acknowledge the divine right of Islam to rule the entire world.

Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: "A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it."

Like Al-Mawirdi before him in the 11th century defined it as: "Succession of the Prophethood aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia)"

Hassan al-Banna founder of the Muslim Brotherhood said "It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations and extend its power to the entire planet."

And you still haven't quoted the verses that include this limitation to 5 tribes, OR EVEN mention of these tribes.

 

Zeus gave me mine

 

Zardoz-Into a world of eternal life, he brought the gift of death.

 

The Muslms were being persecuted for their religion, that is why they refer to their attackers as unbelievers. The surrounding verses even state to protect those who do not wish to fight them ("Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you" - "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety"), and to make peace with their attacks whenever they are ready to make peace. All you have to do is read the entire section yourself.. again, there is no part of the Quran that permits Muslims to harm innocent people

the Quran even states

"Dispute not with the people of the book. We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you. Our god and your god is one"

“Feed the hungry and visit a sick person, and free the captive, if he be unjustly confined. Assist any person oppressed, whether Muslim or non-Muslim.”

 

So then quote it. Quote ANY verse that limits ANY commandment to 5 particular tribes.

I didn't claim, the verses stated as such.

 

Made up nonsense. The "unbelievers" are those who do not believe. There are 120 uses of the term unbeliever in the Koran. Not a one of them gives any such indication of being limited to certain tribes.

 

Islamophobia implies irrational fear...I do fear Islam, but it is rational. Mostly however I simply find it disgusting and nasty.

 

Given your knowledge of islam, it is perhaps a rational fear insofar as what little knowledge you have paints such a picture of it. But, if you knew more about Islam, there would be no rational reason to fear it.

 

You need to cite a verse #. Il take a guess that this IS NOT from the Koran. And that any verse expressing such a sentiment would be from the Meccan verses