FACT: Atheists are Lost

Disproving a negative is a piece of cake. One can prove that a moon in Orion isn't made of green cheese simply by going there.

Most atheists simply don't believe in God. Lack of belief is not a belief.

 

Why would you assume otherwise ?

 

There is currently no way to go to Orion so there is no way to prove Orion is not made of Green cheese but you are missing the point.

The point of the fallacy is that lack of proof that Orion is not made of green cheese does not constitute proof that it is made of green cheese.

Similarly, just because there is no objective evidence that proves God does not exists, is not proof that God actually does exist.

It is impossible to prove that God "doesn't" exist.

It is impossible to prove that smoking crack will not do you some good. This does not make smoking crack a good thing.

 

The Creator is not necessarily bound to natural law or any law of which we comprehend. He may be, but the simple fact that He created the laws and all we can comprehend would suggest He is probably not bound to them.

 

We do not know that some creator made laws. If some creator did make some laws, whether or not he/she/it is bound by them has no bearing on our comprehension of these laws.

 

Hey Giftedone: I am still waiting for your response on this one.

 

Correct, it has no bearing on our comprehension of the laws, but if the Creator is not bound to the laws He bound us to, then... we would not necessarily be able to comprehend Him. Trying to make God fit a human conceived mold is futile.

 

That's not a case of depending on a proof - it's just going there to make an observation.

Science has no way of proving whether or not there is a God. God is a completely different "realm" (as the current and past Popes and Einstein" put it).

Mixing these realms results in nothing but total nonsense.

 

I can find my way in the woods pretty werll, thank you. I have my compass and know many ways of telling which way north is and how to find things.

 

You're correct that it is a logical fallacy to say Orion is made of green cheese because we lack evidence that it is not, but that is not the same thing as disproving a negative. If someone claimes Orion is not made of green cheese, then any evidence that it is would disprove the negative.

It's as trivial as proving that square circles don't exist when the definition of God is logically inconsistent.

 

That's why we have philosophy, to explore subjects where science cannot.

 

The people attacking science don't even understand it. It's like having a layman criticise an engineer's expert opinion (which also happens all the time now thanks to the hoax proponents going after 9/11 and the Apollo moon landings). They bleat about how God has to exist for the universe to exist and how evolution simply can't be true because, erm, biblical kinds and stuff, and there's no substance to any of it. They're just arguing out of desperation at having their happy fantasy challenged by certain scientific theories and facts.

It's frustrating to see these arguments carrying on endlessly when, in reality, there is NO argument at all. Creationists don't deserve the time of day any more than your typical moon landing kook does.

 

Exactly. A different set of tools is required.

 

Perhaps a creator/God would be bound by laws. We just do not know. We do not know the extent of the powers of this God.

Humans of course would comprehend some things about a God perhaps some things not. Humans do not comprehend things about other people never-mind some things about a foreign entity like an alien.

I agree that religious folks spend most of their time putting God in a box and then as soon as tough questions arise suddenly God becomes incomprehensible.

I take it you do not agree with the "in our likeness, in our image" part of Genesis.

 

Nothing can correct according to you. Deeming something correct or incorrect requires a belief that objective empirical evidence exists and you do not.

There is no point in entering a debate on anything with someone who does nothing but deny the existence of objective reality is pointless unless the existence of objective reality is the topic.

In order to debate anything other than the existence of objective reality, objective reality must be assumed to exist.

 

And they know that how?

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Which gives nothing more than people's opinions. Same as religion.

 

Aside from the silly constraint.

How does one prove that lack of existence of some being more powerful than humans in the universe ?

 

Why must objective reality be assumed to exist? That statement of yours gives the appearance of being an admission that there is no PROOF that objective reality actually exists. If you MUST ASSUME that objective reality exists, then one should be able to explain why one MUST ASSUME that objective reality exists. Where did the mandate to make an assumption regarding the existence of objective reality have its origin?

 

Well said.

 

I agree, He may or may not be bound to laws, we would have no way to know.

RE: Genesis... I have no reason to disagree. Obviously, as a human, the context is relative to my experience. In my experience a copy is never the same as the original. What parts of mankind are made in God's image? Our body? Our role on Earth? Our relationship to the plants and animals? All the above?

 

They (the popes, Einstein) know that mixing the realms of religion and science gives nonsense, because the systems of investigation are not even similar.

Look up scientific method. The methods of science preclude it from EVER addressing whether or not there is a god or what some god might or might not have done. It's not a matter of attack on religion - it's simply that science isn't capable of that.

Likewise, religious argument style fails when applied to investigation of our physical world.

The two are just different realms. There is no reason to believe that mixing them would give anything BUT nonsense.

 

If there is indeed an objective reality why would one need to assume that it exists?

 

I would be willing to bet (a gentleman bet anyway) that you are not seriously expecting an honest and intelligent response.. LOL.

 

I like to think that the claimant saw the trap that I set and wisely chose to avoid it.

The argument of objective reality is a fascinating one to me. On one hand one can use an argument of infinite regression which will inexorably lead to a place where one has to throw up their hands and admit that they do not know. Yet for our society to function we need to ground ourself in some base reality... even if said reality is contextual, subjective, and wide open to interpretation.

Sometimes I wish I could crawl back out of the rabbit hole and go back to my simplistic naive view of breaking everything down to a binary yes/no... good/bad... value/valueless... et cetera ad nauseam... but that ship has sailed.

 

Sounds like the study more than likely came from Fox News or a bunch of preachers. I like this one because it addresses the absence of young people. Were it not for the continuous brainwashing of young people with that fairy tale it would have been dead long ago:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/

Survey: One in five Americans has no religion

By Dan Merica

Washington – The fastest growing "religious" group in America is made up of people with no religion at all, according to a Pew survey showing that one in five Americans is not affiliated with any religion.

The number of these Americans has grown by 25% just in the past five years, according to a survey released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

The survey found that the ranks of the unaffiliated are growing even faster among younger Americans.

Thirty-three million Americans now have no religious affiliation, with 13 million in that group identifying as either atheist or agnostic, according to the new survey.

Pew found that those who are religiously unaffiliated are strikingly less religious than the public at large. They attend church infrequently, if at all, are largely not seeking out religion and say that the lack of it in their lives is of little importance.