Judge orders California to pay for inmate's sex change

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Sgt_McCluskey, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have to wonder why people think physical surgery will fix a mental problem. I don't think being locked up for life is doing his state of mind any good, so why not release him for the benefit of his mental health?
     
  2. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    It's a "respectable opinion" in your eyes only. Other people consider it a waste of taxpayer's money in order to indulge a criminal.
    How about you and the judge chip in together for surgery if you are so invested in it happening? But of course we all know other's people money is so much easier to throw away.


    So this man's penis will not be removed under this proposed surgery?

    And yet another way of putting it is your little hypotheticals are about as lame as it gets. If this judge has highly specialized medical and psychological insights in this matter you should let everyone know.
    If not you should stop with the bull crap.


    No, but you should.
    Barry Obama is not about to appoint a non liberal judge to an important appellate court position so your absurd
    contention that we don't know if this judge is liberal or not is frankly, just so much bull crap (again).

    And if you'd gone to the trouble to research John Tigar's background you would see where he graduated law school from, as I did, and realize that the most progressive president in history does not fill judicial vacancies with anything other than solidly dependable left wingers. That you would even try to pretend otherwise says so much about you and your posts.
     
  3. GeddonM3

    GeddonM3 Well-Known Member

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    Having better treatment is one thing, but going to prison and being provided sex change operations on tax payer dollars is beyond ridiculous, especially for a lifer.

    You are not in prison to be given a vagina, you are there because you screwed up royally.

    Now with that said if you wanted to help out the non lifers who are non violent, by helping them prepare for life after their sentence is over. And if they want to have some kind of sex change help them finance it and pay it back on their own.....that isone thing that even I could se working out. But going to jail and feeling it necessary that you have a sex change via tax payer dollars ??? oh hell no.
     
  4. Guey

    Guey New Member

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    Many times it's because they're narcissists or sociopaths. They're not capable of planning ahead. In addition they will lie to or manipulate people to benefit themselves, and don't feel any remorse whatsoever for those they hurt. It's always short-term though because people eventually realize what they are.

    One of my best friends is one of these people. He's been to prison 4 or 5 times and exhibits the behavior I mentioned. But if you know what they are you are able to guard against their "tactics." Even though he's not a good person, I always have fun when we go out, so I look past that. I'm not going to mention any specific activities he's done since being out, but let's say he hasn't learned his lesson.

    And while it's true many of them have trouble finding jobs (I never hired anyone with a criminal record), none of the ones I've personally known have. My friend actually made an okay salary. He owns a bar now though. The ones that didn't have high-paying or even average-paying jobs honestly weren't capable of the performance or even the look to land one, so it's not a prison record keeping them from a good job, but it's them themselves.

    And while I understand your point about them being punished outside of prison by having a record, I look at it as all people are judged by past actions if they're known. I recently read an article about the guy that tried bullying the Chik-Fil-A employee in the drive-thru that he hasn't been able to hold down a job since. He got hired once, but two weeks later was terminated when they realized he was that guy. Yes, it makes it harder for them to find a job, but shouldn't the employer know who they're hiring? If not only for employee safety, but also for loss prevention reasons and company reputation should they do anything illegal.

    Sure. If by chance you mean providing them with tools to better themselves. With that said, many aren't redeemable. In fact many use prison as a training ground so to say. I knew someone who learned how to make meth and crack in prison.


    I agree. Although I think private prisons are a terrible idea. They're all about cutting costs, and they actually benefit from people being incarcerated. I have to wonder if they're able to influence judges to grant longer prison terms than the crime merits.


    I'm uncertain of what you're trying to say here.

    I have no problem with providing education for them. To me knowledge is almost always a good thing. In my opinion, the more educated a society is the better it is.
     
  5. Jack Links

    Jack Links Well-Known Member

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    More wasted tax money. What will they do when the well runs dry?
    The water wells are running out, the money well is next.
     
  6. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The incentive is to make it miserable so they will never ever want to go back.
     
  7. I am rage

    I am rage New Member

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    I imagine a guy with a vagina in prison would be quite the popular one.

    With all the money we waste on things I can't be bothered to care about this. It's stupid, but not even on the radar of relevant spending issues.

    The outrage I'm seeing in these posts is wasted.
     
  8. peoshi

    peoshi New Member

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    First off...it is not a her regardless of how "he" feels, secondly, a precedence is not a "necessity", they are two entirely different things, especially when you are forcing others to pay for "his" whim!

    Are you(like this judge) incapable of using common sense?

    Did you even read the link? "Precedence" does not mean you are forced to follow it!

    Where is the "precedence"?

    Do you think he will die if he does not have it?

    Or become depressed? He's in prison for murder serving a life sentence...he's supposed to be depressed! :roll:
     
  9. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL...
     
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    So I like how you think this is a "whim." This has been going on for 15 years. This isn't something new. Or did you not read the article?

    Personal insulting is a sign you don't have an argument.

    Yes you are right. What's your point?

    The precedence comes from already allowing Hormone treatments in the first place. It means that the courts rule that this is an acceptable way of dealing with Transgenders. So then, it would be a natural extension that if SRS can help, then she should recieve it.

    Do I think those things? I doubt it, but that's not the point of prison now is it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Then wouldn't the punishment end once they're outside of prison?
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Sure why not?

    More so that it displays a crude understanding of what's going on. It speaks to credibility of the person arguing against it.

    So what you're really telling me is that you can't do anything to discredit this person. I've already laid out my reasons why I trust his decision while you have done nothing to establish that he wasn't informed on the topic, or had some sort of bias. It shows to anyone reading that you don't have a counter argument, you're just grasping for straws.


    Now this is sad. Obama has nothing to do with this thread and you decide it's some sort of problem. Now I looked Jon Tigar up. It might be wikipedia but it's probably going to be true if we look it up:
    "The Senate confirmed his nomination by unanimous consent on December 21, 2012.[5] He received his commission on January 18, 2013."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_S._Tigar

    So even Republicans went along with this.

    Hey, it looks like I just did! It shows that "whatever" liberal tendencies you think exist, it shows that it didn't matter to the GOP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's a fair position to take. But then we have to look at what the roles of prison are. If they're there to rehabilitate people then they have to show it. This can be a way to do it.
     
  12. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    That's fair enough, there are people out there who just don't seem to get it. Four or five times is a lot more then the second chance I was advocating for. It still says that they believe in redemption but sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/new...enders-have-greatly-reduced-employment-rates/
    It's a little biased, but it's not too bad of a read. It does explain why ex-offenders have trouble keeping jobs down.

    Of course. That's why people have to be careful what they post online because it can be used to haunt them later on. That being said, there can be limits on whether or not something can be reasonably used against them. I know there are "tests" courts can use to determine whether or not it's okay to discriminate against someone in a particular instance. It just gets to the point where people have to show it's a reasonable discrimination.

    True, but that seems more like a symptom of the problem. Why is making meth and crack more profitable and cost efficient then reading Kante? If we think about it not in terms of legality but if they have a job or not, they're learning a new trade. In a sad sense, it does show that prisons are doing that, just not the ones that promote society.


    Of course they're horrible. One of the ways they cut costs is reducing the costs of labor. I don't know if you have the time, but there is a good video on this.
    [video=youtube;_Pz3syET3DY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY[/video]

    It might be a comedy skit, but it's a good one. It does explain better then I could the problems that exist with prisons in the U.S.



    So let's say that you and me are working on a project together. We both do an equal amount of work. One day I say "Hey, I'm going to take the day off so I can learn how to be even more efficient, and we can finish the project faster." You would have to do my work, but if it pays off then the project can be done faster and better. This is a market failure, when people aren't "paying" or working for their fair share in the hopes of making the system more efficient in the future.

    It's a good idea, just a tough sell. Parents everywhere struggle to help put their children through college, so why would you want to pay for someone's education when they broke the law?
     
  13. Hummingbird

    Hummingbird Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Once they switch body parts on him, he'll go to a women's prison b/c he's a 'woman'.......

    Then he'll under go the treatment to grow breasts, etc. The cost of this is astronomical and of course, it won't cost him a dime. The bill will be dumped on the taxpayers......

    The idea that someone can murder someone else, sent to prison for life, then whine that he wants to be a woman and some brain-dead, bleeding heart judge says 'oh you poor thing! Well, I have the power to make that happen for you and I will do it b/c I want you to be happy and it's your constitutional right to be whomever you think you should be...." liberalism definitely is a mental disease.
     
  14. Rainbow Crow

    Rainbow Crow New Member Past Donor

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    I know a girl who has severe smallboobs dysphoria. It makes it difficult for her to function in life.

    Now seriously, we put fake breasts on men in order to make them look more like women and use taxpayer money to do it because the men are bothered by their lack of boobs. Why aren't we giving flat-chested women state-funded boob jobs too? If the only criteria is how much it hurts their feelings, I am sure there are women out there who are hurt by it as much as these women-in-men's-bodies are.
     
  15. Hummingbird

    Hummingbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh grooooan..... I can't believe this sappy stuff......so according to you, it shouldn't be about the victim. After all, he/she is dead, buried and gone forever - right? It's only about the murderer b/c he's still alive and everything should be done to make him comfy and feeling good about himself......

    If he had murdered one of your loved ones, would you still have the same sappy sentiments about the murderer of your loved one being given whatever he wanted? Can you answer that w/honesty?

    As far as what other people will wonder...... m/b they'll get the message that if they kill someone - don't expect special treatment in prison b/c they were sent there for PUNISHMENT for murdering another person! Is that so hard to understand?

    You liberals w/your fuzzy, wuzzy feelings for the killers and the depraved sickos who have destroyed innocent lives makes me want to barf.........
     
  16. peoshi

    peoshi New Member

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    Yes...it is a whim, he is 51yrs. old!

    I ask you if you were capable of common sense, after reading your response it's apparent you are not

    Do I really have to explain that to you? You are the one who brought up precedence.

    Hormone treatment is not a precedence for a sex change any more than aspirin is a precedence for heart surgery. :roll:

    Where do you see a "precedence" for surgery?:confusion:

    Getting expensive surgery at taxpayer expense is not the point of prison either, now is it?

    Then let him pay for his own surgery if he gets out of prison...see how easy that is?
     
  17. Hummingbird

    Hummingbird Well-Known Member

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    You're saying that people who feel no remorse for the pain they've caused others is 'short term' and eventually will feel remorse? Am I reading that right?

    Sociopaths/psychopaths have no conscience, so therefore it's impossible for them to feel 'remorse' about anything they've done. Their world is all about themselves. They aren't capable of loving anyone - not even their own children.......

    They're good at putting on the act of showing 'remorse', but that's done only for their own benefit and usually to con someone......

    Ted Bundy, The Green River killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, the BTKiller are classic examples of the soulless and unconscionable.....truly evil.
     
  18. Hummingbird

    Hummingbird Well-Known Member

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    That logic just doesn't dawn on the liberal minds......
     
  19. Guey

    Guey New Member

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    No. The benefits they receive from manipulating people is short term.

    Those people usually end up seeing what they are and avoid them. So instead of making a friendship with someone that can have a long term impact, they instead choose to be short sighted. It'd be like if someone offered them $1000 in a year or $50 today, them taking the $50. I guess as a quick analogy.
     
  20. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    Sure why not what? Waste the money of others or chip in yourself for this surgery?



    LOL, I've shown the end result of this judge's decision. Sorry if that upsets you.

    No. That's what you are saying. This judge discredits himself with his decision.

    You've merely demonstrated you take as an act of faith that this judge has made a wise decision. On the other hand I've used the decision itself, which is wasteful, capricious and irresponsible, to prove you absolutely wrong.

    What's next? Liposuction and other cosmetic surgery for death row scum?


    I'll tell you what's sad...that your ability to follow a simple train of thought seems highly tenuous at best. You claimed this judge was not a liberal (or you challenged the notion) so I merely pointed out who nominated this judge for the appellate court...Barry Obama.
    Most people understand the dynamic in play but it seems to completely baffle you.


    Which says nothing about the judge himself. Or perhaps those voting to confirm Tigar had no way of seeing into the future at a decision like this.
     
  21. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, some very sick(as in ill) stuff on the left.
     
  22. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    Where exactly in the Constitution is the right to sexual reassignment surgery mentioned?
     
  23. Hummingbird

    Hummingbird Well-Known Member

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    That's what I asked and never got an answer....and they won't be answering and that bleeding heart liberal judge wouldn't be able to answer it either, altho this is what he claimed.......

    It's really hard to believe this (*)(*)(*)(*) goes on, but it is......
     
  24. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyone who doesn't support this sex change is anti LGBT and a homophobe and the LGBT jihadist will come after you so it's best to just open your wallets up and give your money to Jerry Brown.
     
  25. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    No.

    So is your argument reduced to "what if scenarios"?

    Punishment and rehabilitation.

    How very nice. If you do barf, please do so in a bathroom. Otherwise it can be a mess to clean up.
     

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