Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Most of your list can be refuted with your own bible.

Your God is shown to torture and kill King David's baby because of his anger at David.

Apply that to your list and tell us the new list.

That will tell us what kind of morals your God is teaching you.

You show 21 items above.

I await your new list. A short one if you are an honest man.

Regards
DL

 

No, not a sin to seek knowledge for knowledge has given us so many wonderful things, but it came at a cost. The cost was that all knowledge comes from man being able to separate himself from the rest of creation, conceptionally, and then being separate(an illusion) he can then act upon the outside world, even taking us to the moon. Apparently in the life line of homo sapiens, there was one time in the distant past when we looked as we do today, but our brains didn't interact with the outside world as it did after the event in mythical Eden when a change in human consciousness happened. That change has given us the modern world, which is wonderful, but also filled with great dangers from the technology that a duality in consciousness has given us. But his is not all that the duality in consciousness has given man, and here is where sin begins.....

...for once that we could conceptionally separate ourselves from a world that we are not actually separate from, with the separate an illusion arose. That illusion is the ego, the self, the center, the "I". As soon as that arose sin was born the first time that this illusion gratified itself, by hurting another human being. And that is sin. And this ego, self, "I" effectively meant that instead of being a part of the world, we sense we are separate from it, and from this, we have tried our best in our greed to destroy the very earth that gives us substanence and life.

And a genuine religion involves transcending this ego, and reconnecting with he totality, while still being able to separate ourselves in order to continue on in the accumulation of knowledge. That is, a change in consciousness happens again, that connects us back, so we know we are not separate, but can act separate when we need to. So when we need thought, we use it, but when we do not, we go silent inwardly, which is the state of mind before the Fall. And in that silence lies the Kingdom, which does not contain the ego, the self. And that silence then makes thought sane, orderly, healthy when thought does have to work.

In this silence, one is perfect, for the ego is not moving, and that is what Christ was speaking of when he said to be perfect as the father in heaven is perfect.

 

so God that not wearing cloths was bad, but he liked watching them naked, once they ate from the tree they realized God was perverted? God was definitely not happy they covered their private parts... fact he threw them out of the garden because of this and punished them....

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Duality thinking has it's place.

As above so below puts our thinking into a potential of above so that we can compare it to below.

This does not always work but it works quite well at other times.

Consider that in heaven, God decided that to have his innocent son die instead of punishing the guilty was somehow just. He chose his son instead of stepping up himself.

Here below, men are more just and know that the guilty should face punishment and not the innocent.

So dualistic thinking here shows that God is quite the immoral demiurge if he did what Christians believe he did as that would show man being more responsible to his family than God is to his. We know that any father worth the title would die for their children if they could.

Why Christians would follow such a vile demiurge is a question that has yet to be answered well.

As to our egos. Those define us. We must embrace our ego if we are to love our neighbour as ourselves.

It is to each of us to, esoterically speaking, to get past our egos and open our minds and third eye to see past our egos. We are to mold our egos and embrace them, not discard them.

Regards
DL

 

Doesn't make sense, mate. I imagine "be fruitful and multiply" was a phrase that indicated they could procreate. However, "do not eat from this tree" and the curse that God placed not only on Adam and Eve, but all of mankind...and snakes...suggests that this was not part of his plan. If it was, then he's not very logical or he's very manipulative and sadistic since he knew exactly what he was doing, what would happen, and did it anyway.

 

What is written in the Bible cannot be taken, in and of itself, as truth. I could write something about what God looks like and if I'm convincing enough to sell a 100 million copies will people in the future think my book must have had some truth to it because it was so popular and survived all that time? I guess you really can't underestimate a good story... It's no wonder politiicans like to tell stories when they want to be convincing (watch the 2016 elections. Garaunteed each candidate will have one or more personal, moving stories or accounts. They answer questions like this because they know people tend to be more acepting of ideas when it comes in the form of a story. The logic behind it is when we are listening we become passive participants, kind of like watching TV. We lower our defenses more and accept the logic of the story, itself, in such a way that what is said in the context of the story is taken as truth)

But I think it's safe to say that no one knows anything about God. Absolutely nothing at all can be proven about God in any way without conjuring up possible connections to actual things. There is no way to prove any feature of God, any detail of God, any motive or saying or whatever from God except an old text. Of course, there are thousand of other accounts of God- both written and verbal, but I guess it's easier for some of these people to call the others lies...or misunderstandings...or the same thing, really...

I do find it funny, myself, the many many contradictions in peoples manner of believing never makes them ever rethink. However, I've seen the same thing from people who deny they are in a bad relationship, in a bad job, etc. I think it has something to do with them emotionally or psycologically. Some ideas get welded to a persons sense of self and confronting it is like attacking them in that sense so they become really defensive and reject anything to the contrary. I can sympathize since I've been the same way about a few ideas in the past.

 

I agree that those who are not idol worshipers like Christians cannot take what is written as any kind of truth.

Nevertheless, to those who can analyse what is said of God in scriptures without falling into belief can judge him to be either good or evil, to their own sense of morality.

I am not an atheist but that is how an atheist like Richard Dawkins can opine as follows.


“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

You and I do not believe in Mother Goose either but we can say that she is portrayed as a nice woman.

Regards
DL

 

You might have noted that A & E were told to reproduce in Gen 1, yet in Gen 3, they did not even know they were naked till after breaking God's command.

Knowledge of choices that the tree of knowledge gives is what creates desire for those other choices. In this case, knowledge of the good and evil of sex and reproduction is what created the desire. That creation of desire is also the desire for anything else.

Pure logic but this Rabbi says it better than I. Start the link at about the 28 min mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJkiUHizhk

Regards
DL

 

That is why they suppressed education as long as they did. They feared people becoming educated and discovering religion is a gigantic scam.

 

1) Yes. According to the bible, God hates when people worship other gods, because he's a jealous god (Exodus 34:14). The type of jealousy He refers to is the type of jealousy a husband would have over his cheating wife. He constantly referred to Israel as being a wife who whores herself to other gods and other people.

2) God doesn't murder. Each time God wiped out a group of people, it was because of a great amount of evil they've done and plan to do in the future. When he looks into the hearts of those people, he see they are unwilling to change, so he wipes them out. Yes, that even includes children in some instances.

I understand that people like to believe all children are innocent, but they really all aren't.

 

So according to god, he is not the only god.... he is only one of many.. and he is petty and jealous. Not exactly divine qualities...

Next, purposeful killing is murder.. look up the definition.. so you say he killed people because they plan to do evil in the future??? Then by your own admission, he knows what will happen in the future which means he knew men would do evil before he even created them....
So is god a big screw up? Or is he so evil he enjoys creating and murdering people in great genocides.

 

And some people wonder why I am Agnostic.

AboveAlpha

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GOD as described by Religious Dogma is a construct of Man.

Just like a Flat Earth.

Just like the Earth being the Center of the Universe.

Just like HELL existing at the center of the Planet...etc...etc...etc.

AboveAlpha

 

Oh, I thought hell existed ON earth for some people.

 

It certainly does.

AboveAlpha

 

SAD!!!

 

It is, against negativity. But it takes much more energy to love.

How does science show that? I thought you people believed in Darwin (survival of the fittest). Yes one can cooperate with their 'gang' and kill other rival gangs so much for cooperation huh? Meanwhile the killers claim THEY are right and just. What you are advocating is chaos and everyone making up their own morals based on some hazy definition of 'positive' survival and cooperation.

Interestingly you left out the most important part of positive cooperation which is a strong, societal moral code that everyone understands. That doesn't come naturally in any of the animal kingdom. For humans, the belief in a higher power with morals set down that all people understand, teach their children and obey to the best of their ability it the best way we humans get along.

Then along comes the ones that would throw all that into the trashcan because they have a chip on their shoulder about God and religion.

 

How doyou figure this is the best way Human's get along as History has shown the deaths of Millions over conflicting Religious Views?

AboveAlpha

 

So you would prefer survival of the fittest or strongest or richest? Or maybe you prefer to live under the tyranny of a dictator with their own set of arbitrary morals?

 

Based on what you've said here, I'd like to add this question: How can people who had no concept of right and wrong be blamed for doing something wrong, i.e. something they did not comprehend as such in the first place?

Going by the story as it's recorded, they were only promised that they would "surely die" if they ate of that forbidden fruit, but had no concept of right and wrong yet precisely because they had not yet eaten of that fruit. Being in a deathless state, they also likely wouldn't have had much of a concept of death, unless we're to conclude that there was death prior to this "fall from grace" after all. If we place the story in the context of the real world as it's understood scientifically today, then of course there was death and this matter might be ignored, although there is no scientific evidence or explanation for immortal humans at any point, nor for humans lacking a concept of right and wrong; many social animals have at least a rudimentary sense of right and wrong, including our beloved pet dogs.

 

Modern secularism has proven to be the best overarching system known to man. It's liberal in the best sense of the word, it's individually empowering, and it has no tolerance for dictators and arbitrary morals (outside of what is established legally, that is). We certainly have theocracy beat here in the western world, where all are free to believe and practice as they choose, though of course within reasonable constraints.

I like your current signature, by the way. It's a shame we've long lost our republic, but I think it was bound to happen eventually.

 

Indeed. God doesn't claim to be the only god, but it does claim to be the only true living god.

He killed people because of the evil they've done and the evil they were planning to do. It's not an "or" statement. It's an "and" statement. I then clarified that God examines their hearts and can see that they are unwilling to change. Meaning, they are planning to continue to do evil. God needn't peer into the future to see that sort of thing.

The real issue here isn't what God does. The issue is that you do not want God to exist because you want to be free to pursue your own lusts.

 

Secularism is as much a religion as Judeo-Christian sects. The big difference is that there is no agreed-upon moral code. Secularism depends on individual interpretation as to what is moral and what is not. Secularists must then set themselves up individually as the arbiter of what is right and what is wrong making themselves god-like instead of humbly deferring to a higher power that has the welfare of the majority uppermost.

A secularist society, completely void of globally understood, traditional morals and values would then have countless laws and lawyers to substitute for a public that no longer has a strong moral tradition, and don't count on those laws to actually be fair...no...They will be written by individuals with individual concepts of what THEY consider moral. This causes chaos and unrest....Like we are seeing now.

Secularism especially appeals to narcissistic people who believe that they are the most important consciousness in the Universe.

 

What you said makes absolutely no sense.

1) I find it rather interesting that you don't believe in the Christian God, but you use the bible to call him a monster. I mean... You don't believe in that God, so what the religious text says about him shouldn't really affect you. However, since it is affecting you, that means you believe the Christian God exists and you hate him for whatever reasons you have.

2) As far as morals God is teaching me. I dunno what your reference to morality is. You haven't told anyone. So, what kind of morals do you have?

Who cares? You don't believe in any of it anyway. It's not like you're going to believe what I say if you don't even believe what you're reading.

Once again, you keep throwing around the words "evil" and "immoral". I have no idea what your moral reference point is. How do you determine what is good and what is bad? Explain that to me first and then we'll go from there.

 

Yes. God is a jealous God, He is wrathful and He does avenge. Is that a bad thing?

1) God is jealous like a husband would be jealous over His cheating wife
2) God is wrathful because He punishes those who do evil
3) God avenges, because He doesn't allow evil acts to get a free pass

Where's the problem here?

 

You are posting as if you've established such a great moral high ground, and based on your statements it seems that you would support the work of Josef Mengele, yes? I hope, even if you still disagree, you at least see my point. Mengele sought knowledge but through violating God's law, and it was a sin not because he sought knowledge, but because he violated God's law. Or do you think Mengele was awesome for violating God's law in the pursuit of knowledge? ^_-