Nasa confirms working "impossible" space drive

Discussion in 'Science' started by Ctrl, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive

    Holy (*)(*)(*)(*).
     
  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I like the idea of non-propellant thrusters. Turning electric power directly into thrust seems like a good future direction for our space programs.
     
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wow, okay welI there goes conservation of momentum out the window. I guess it isn't an isolated system after all. There must be something out there to explain it.

    I wonder is this is where the multiverse comes in?

    Or, is there another unaccounted for force? Maybe it's Dark Matter/Dark Energy?
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    or....our universe is just a simulation and some kid is fooling around with the base code.
     
  6. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nice. The kid must be flipping the switch back and forth between trial runs, because some people continue to doubt the results. Opinions on whether there's thrust or not keep going back and forth.

    Here's an example of an article that casts doubt onto this thing.
    Independent expert confirms that the "impossible" EM Drive actually works
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    A perpetual motion machine of the second kind, yes?

    I tend to be skeptical myself of the only things the US Patent Office flat out refuses to even consider a patent for, and besides, I was hoping for a working warp drive. 70 days to Mars is still piddling small potatoes when compared with the Enterprise going from the Earth to the Sun before Spock even noticed :wink:
     
  8. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting. I can't wait to see if it is a reality.
     
  9. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    The "engine" violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics...basically this means there is no such thing as free energy. It is important to note that on the quantum level, classical laws of physics are often violated; and that is what this engine is deriving it's power source from.

    The "engine" uses quantum fluctuations in a vacuum chamber to produce minute quantities of forward motion aka thrust, sort of like the Casimir effect I'm thinking. In space there is no friction, so even tiny amounts of energy can translate to motion. What is ingenious is how the design, this venturi tube concentrates the quantum fluctuations in greater amounts in one section of the engine translating to forward motion.

    What this means is a tremendous weight savings for space travel as less fuel is required to power the space vehicle.
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is impossible for it to work for it violates what we think is a law. And we cannot be wrong about what we think we know.

    So, no matter how many tests are done, no matter if it actually works, it cannot work, so forget about it. Test results, even if they yield the same results one million times do not matter. Nothing can break the laws we figured out. Nothing.

    Or maybe God is just (*)(*)(*)(*)ing with our heads? LOL To show us, our brains ain't (*)(*)(*)(*), we just think we are more intelligent than we are. Got these egos the size of Everest.
     
  11. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Things on the very...very...very...tiny scale routinely violate our classical laws of physics. There is a boundary in nature that separates our World, what we experience everyday..the known, and what is largely unknown on the quantum level. The famous double slit experiment showing that light is both a particle or a wave dependent upon how it is measured, illustrates that quantum weirdness is routine. In fact atoms can be made to behave similarly to quanta by lowering them to extreme temperatures approaching absolute zero...nano kelvin. At these temperatures, a new state of matter is taking place, a Bose Einstein condensate. Atoms behave similarly to photon quanta, they are both a particle or wave dependent upon measurement.

    The Casimir effect is very real, and has been experimentally proven. The Casimir effect illustrates zero point or vacuum state energy, this is what the EM drive engine is utilizing to produce energy which in turn produces thrust. In the vacuum of space even very small units of energy can translate to motion. There is never really nothing, even in a complete vacuum, quantum particles pop into and out of existence, seemingly from nothing. They exist instantaneously and just as quickly go ouf of existence. Nevertheless, in the brief flash of their existence, energy can be extracted on the quantum scale. This is not science fiction...something can literally be derived from nothing as there is no such thing...as nothing.
     
  12. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I know you're being sarcastic, so I'm essentially agreeing with the first part. I can't think of anything more unbecoming of a scientist than calling something impossible when experimental results suggest something unexpected is going on. Sure, look for the errors and try to correct for them, but they shouldn't assume they have all the answers ahead of time. Dogma is for religion, not science. There are often exceptions to the rules.

    So then, what is the implication of the technology? What can it do for us and when?
     
  13. MRogersNhood

    MRogersNhood Banned

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    As has already been stated:It could be used to steer satellites.

    "Could it be used to power a car or boat?" Would be my question.
     
  14. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    On Earth? Not much. The power produced by quantum fluctuations is allegedly on the order of 20 micro-Newtons. In the absence of gravity and in the vacuum of space, this could be used as means of propulsion for a space vehicle. A great deal of energy is required to lift objects out of Earth's gravity. The less something weighs, the better. By using an EM drive on a space vehicle, there would be a tremendous weight savings as it is propellant-less, and of course you wouldn't have to worry about running out of fuel. The microwaves powering the engine are generated by a solar powered magnetron. The engine would be self-contained which is where it violates the the law of conservation of momentum. No propellant of any sort.

    Right now, the technology is more in the speculative phase, but in theory the Casimir effect, which is the basic principle of the EM drive...is very real.
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I was addressing the dogma that is present with scientists. Sheldrake wrote a book called the science delusion that points out the dogma.
     
  16. Xanadu

    Xanadu New Member

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    TV/media makes the impossible a believe. For example. A on youtube you can see people try to make motors from permanent neodymium magnets because they strongly believe in the principle.
    Our still primitive mind can't see the fundamentals of nature, because fundamental thinking is the hardest thing there is. Too primitive to reach that ultra fundamental level of thinking (instinct works better than thinking, the more you think the harder it is to get the answers you want)
    RF resonant cavity thrust could work. HF radiation acts a bit like light or plasma when it is compressed.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF_resonant_cavity_thruster

    When information is going round in the media more and more people start to believe or disbelieve something. That is how information plus a primitive human mind works.
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No.....it could not.
     
  18. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm confused, do you think this is legit or not?
     
  19. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    If it can be repeated by others than it's legit. I have not heard much about it in a year so. I remember when it was first talked about however. China claims to have developed a similar engine as thid EM drive.
     
  20. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    Very interesting! The deeper we dig making micro things macro, and looking deeper into space the more we don't understand a damn thing we thought we did, 'we' meaning
    scientists. Singularities, Dark energy, Dark matter, where does it all end? Maybe a better question is where did it all begin? The very fundamental 'truths' of science are with some of the new discoveries seem to not to be 'truths' at all. They are diametrically opposed to logic itself! What once seemed to fit together like pieces of a 'how to make a universe puzzle' now not only do not fit, they are not even puzzle pieces...lol. I am sure I am not the only person that thinks something is very amiss in the science world. Its kinda like the far side poster of two railroad tracks across the USA and the two tracks just missing each other (sorry that was a bad description!). Anyway now science is more exciting than ever!
    reva
     
  21. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    I did a quick google check and the thing seems legit just not as good a hyped. Still the little thruster (72g of thrust which is roughly three oz) worked in a NASA experiment that nullified the prevailing hypothesis that thrust measurements were due to thermal convection. That will again force someone to explain where the thrust is coming from.

    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

    Well dude Mr T shot down your dream of a EM powered car or boat, so why not hang it on your space ship?

    Warp on brother~

    2015-04-19-010251-350x247.jpg

    reva
     

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