If we can only exist in the here and now how can we tell time moves forward or backward? I can understand the illusion of time moving forward but time moving backwards and the future having an influence on my past is just plain nonsense to me. And how can a "quantum world" be separate from the world we live in now? My past or present will change because of something that happens in my future? I contend that past and future do not exist....just here and now.
It may be my own ignorance and if it is please forgive me....but it makes absolutely no sense at all to me. But of course neither does spending billions of dollars searching for a particle that may or may not exist.
i dont believe time travel is possible, as you can't go back to something that no longer exists. time can only be sped up or slowed down, relative to an observer.
Well, the way I see it, it exists in a quantum particle/wave state until it's measured and then it collapses into a specific state. But, what this experiment seems to say is that in a future where the particle is measured, that future measurement is having an affect on the present, or in other words the future affects the past. Or perhaps a simpler way to view it is like a ripple in the ocean, even though the current is heading in one direction, if you throw a rock into it the ripples head out in all directions. Like time moves in one direction, but specific events can cause ripples into the past as well as the future. In Theory of Relativity there is a loop hole known as Closed-Timelike Curves which leaves the door open to backwards time travel if such things exist. We don't know if they exist yet because none have been observed naturally to this point in time. But, in addition to time travel, there is an aspect of time called non-local time where it doesn't matter if its past, present, or future... It's all happening at the same time. But in this experiment from the OP, an event in the future is affecting the past evolution of a system. It's apparently in the math, which I don't know, but calculating it backwards in time improves the prediction rate to 90-10% where it was 50-50% trying to predict it going from past to future.
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!! Near death experiencer D. S. ...... was somehow shown "herself" five centuries or so in the future..... then it is like she does something of a "Vulcan Mind Meld" with her future self..... then she comes back from her NDE with the mission in life to break chains and set captives free. Her description of the future is quoted in posts #53,54,55,56 and 57. http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...rencies-finance-films-address-problems-6.html Something fascinating about what she saw was about a type of green energy device...... that may already have been invented.... that saw still in popular use around the year 2500 C. E.????! It was later drawn to my attention that (D. S.) has perfectly described .. http://www.solarroadways.com/intro.shtml Solar Roadways
Well, Dennis, I don't know about all of that, but the future affecting the past brings up an interesting scenario. What if the actions you are taking now is spawning a new reality for a version of you currently existing in a past point in time? That version of you will have their own reality perhaps separate from what you remember and different than the one your future self is leaving for you now. I don't know. I'm not a physicist.
I think you mean that reactions travel in two directions? of course, if there is movement one way, it has a ripple effect of atoms, as nearly all or all of them are bound together, and it is like wading through a spider web? a spiral of changes and reactions, of course.
That is basically true, but it's not really right to say that the future affects the past. What can be said is there is a correlation between future events and the past, which does not fall within our basic intuitive understanding of cause and effect. What scientists are finding is that, on the level of quantum waves, to some extent, the past is "predetermined" by the future wave function. This has very profound philosophical implications. Unfortunately they have yet to utilize this phenomena in a machine that could be used to predict the future, but from what I know about this area, such a device is probably not that far in the futuremaybe 25-40 years. It is going to take much longer than that to build a machine that can send messages back in time. Once you start expanding the entangled system to the macroscopic level of human beings you run into several technical problems.
Interestingly, physicists do not truly know the answer to that question at this time. This has been a longstanding philosophical debate in the field of quantum physics. Generally it is suspected that everything is deterministic, but it is not fully understood what causes quantum probability or fluctuations in the quantum vacuum.
I was thinking a new past version of you would appear if you made a different decision in the present than your future version of you made at the same point in time. I was thinking it's possible to make a different set of choices this time around. And since it appears the future affects the past that's a new stream of reality heading backwards in time.
The full answer to that question is far above my security clearance level and/ or pay scale..... .but post #7 on page one here elaborates on one form of evidence that at the minimum indicates one other major time line has already occurred and it diverged from our time line........ no later than 1988 or 1989........... http://www.politicalforum.com/humor...2000-election-but-negates-global-dimming.html In alternate time line Mr. Gore wins the 2000 election but negates Global Dimming... ................(post #7)....... In theory....... Mr. Gore's policy could have ended up greatly decreasing the Global Dimming Effect..... at the same time that it might do little to reduce a general Global Warming trend.... which could lead to rapid warming.....and of course increased cracking and sliding on the land based Greenland Ice Pack.... the world's glaciers and the outer regions of Antarctica...... Prime Minister Stephen Harper and President Bush may have deliberately allowed somewhat bad policy to continue...… because they probably had been told that the factors that increase Global Dimming..... do tend to mask Global Warming.... .which could mean within five decades we may know that that they may have had a basically good idea..... in comparison to worst possible alternative.....??????!!! http://www.baproducts.com/chetmap.htm Dr Chet Snow's Earth Change Map But you would also need to read this page to fully understand why I am sure this other time line differed from our from about 1988...… http://dwij.org/forum/future_link/future7.htm I was wrong..... this is not the article that gave the specific date of 1988 for a massive earthquake that did not occur in our time line............. but this does give you an idea of what I am talking about.
AboveAlpha gave a reply to one of the other topics that ....... to my thinking.... implies the existence of other time lines that are off from our own by only a few days and no more than a week at most. I wonder if Wgabrie can find that one before I can remember where it was?!
Well Dennis, these are the closest I can find: (To view the post, You can click the little box at the end of the line: "Originally Posted by...[>>]")
How would you define 'a different decision'? IMHO we do have a past that we can observe. But we cannot know the future because we have not crossed that threshold. Are you thinking there are 1 or 2 or a billion OldManOnFIre future effects which are determining my present being? I do agree the future effects the past IF the person has already experienced the past and is in that current moment in the future. This is simply saying at any point in the future we will have created more 'past' events. But I cannot fathom the future effecting my current being? I think we're on a one-way time trip only going forward, every moment creating some 'past' moments, but never knowing the future moments. I can't even fathom why we would want future events effecting the current moment?
What would probably happen is that a paradox would not happen. It could not happen, no matter how hard you tried. This is not anything unusual, this type of phenomena is already very well described in quantum wave equations. The prior set of conditions, though seemingly random, is nevertheless predetermined to the extent to prevent a law from being broken in the future. If you want to look at it this way, sometimes the only way for the universe to uphold its laws is to start going back a little in time and retroactively enforcing regulations on what particles were allowed to do.
Excellent...... yes...... post # 211...... Thank you Wgabrie! http://www.politicalforum.com/russi...talks-about-release-e-t-data-part-2-a-22.html
I don't know any of this for sure. All the experiment proved was that in a future where an observation takes place 90 times out of 100 the system evolves towards that future.
Anders Hoveland............... considering how you write............ I place a high value on your opinions........... I started thinking something a few moments ago and I would love to see if you suspect that I might just be onto something. I believe that a significant percentage of people working for the C. I. A., N.S.A. and even FBI have read, "Saved By The Light" by near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley. One of the reasons why they would find his book so interesting is because Dannion worked up through the ranks in the USA military and eventually even worked for the CIA. Chapter 5 of Dannion Brinkley's book would seriously grab the attention of all CIA, NSA and FBI agents who also had a background in theoretical physics. They would immediately understand that his visions of the future were replicable, verifiable, anecdotal evidence for non-linear time............ and specifically for a truly horrible future for virtually the whole world that had spun off from 1975. Many of them would notice the contrast with the future seen by the 2000+ volunteers in the Helen Wambach Ph. D. and Dr. Chet Snow study...... On that note....... I am replying to AboveAlpha here........... so you know that you know that what AA writes here is interesting....... http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=418381&page=12&p=1065287199#post1065287199
That can only be a politically motivated experiment. Psychology, information, communication, hierarchy are key. That too many people are influenced by information from outside their society, and that people (including scientists and intelligentsia) start to believe things deeper the more they are exposed to that (new) information. And that their believes in that information grows. Their positions are becoming stronger, stronger defense, result, a stronger hierarchy. That 'time' or time is politicized, that most people believe time exist. And when more and more people start to disbelieve that time exist, a collective thought is moving into another direction. And when you figure this out, 'time' is going to 'accelerate'. With time they mean emotion (it builds up in the mind, and that process is very hard to stop, until you can see it is happening to you) In other words don't watch too much tv or read 'scientific' articles or a news paper, because every piece of information is going to speed up 'time' (emotions) That you shouldn't become more part of a revolutionary process ('the matrix' shows a revolution) Also not less part, because that will make you more part of the same process, because you start to move in the opposite direction in a revolutionary process (will not lower someone's emotions, and they need to sustain at a relative level) Time does not exist emotion does (you see how it works, that most people will start to defend that time does exist) This era is exactly the same time as when most people believed the Earth was flat instead of a sphere (it was told them, by outsiders) It is about believe in information, and most information does not come from within the society. 'Time' is accelerating, so it is time to decelerate 'Time' (not fully stop it, because that is too absolute, must go slowly back and forth at the same time) How? Stay in the present (in a circle with the same information.. but new info keeps coming all the time, almost never from within society, a society can't self think so well, perhaps that is what need to be educated, but not via 'public' schools, by parents who understand the present reality) Information from the past (old) and from the system (new) is going to speed up 'Time'.
What??? I don't understand. Are you sure you're thinking rationally? As I'm someone who has a history of mental illness I have to ask.
Interpretations of quantum mechanics fall into "Bohmian mechanics" (pilot-wave theories), "collapse theories "many-worlds interpretations", "modal interpretation" and "relational interpretations." The Copenhagen interpretation still remains as the most accepted among the scientific community. Accorrding to this interpretation, the interaction of an observer or apparatus that is external to the quantum system is the cause of wave function collapse. What is being discussed in this thread is a time symmetric theory. Two State Vector Formalism - given two measurements performed at different times, it is possible to calculate the exact state of the system at all intermediate times The two-state vector formalism (TSVF) is a description of quantum mechanics in terms of a causal relation in which the present is caused by quantum states of the past and of the future taken in combination. The two-state vector is represented where the state evolves backwards from the future and the state evolves forwards from the past. Past and future measurements, taken together, provide complete information about a quantum system. An analogy if I may... If you were in Sacramento, CA yesterday....and tomorrow you are in New York, NY...most likely today you are in St. Louis. Only on the quantum level, time flows both backwards and forwards. A full journey from Sacramento to New York would involve going in one direction in our classical World...our "real World." In the Quantum world, the journey from Sacramento to New York could occur in either direction. If we know a photon is in St. Louis...it could have arrived here from either New York or Sacramento, it is time symmetrical. Sacramento====>St. Louis<========New York By knowing the past state...and the future state...the present state evolves into a known measurement...and this present state is a combination of the past and future as time is symmetrical on the quantum level. So...we know you're in St. Louis at the moment, and you arrived here not from Sacramento yesterday, as would be the case in our classical World (time flows in one direction), but in the quantum World, you arrived in St. Louis from being in Sacramento yesterday and New York tomorrow (time flows in two directions). A bit difficult to grasp, but that's the general idea of two state vector formalism. To determine the quantum state at any given moment, this will based upon it's past and future state.
