Jeremy Corbyn elected Labour leader in stunning victory

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by alexa, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. trout mask replica

    trout mask replica New Member

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    Moreover, the media paint Corbyn's alleged "threat" as being symptomatic of his "hard-left" politics. But in the name of consistency, why don't the media portray Cameron as being "hard -right" for illegally invading countries in the name of neoconservatism and neoZionism???

    In reality, it's the latter that represents a genuine threat to Britain given that state terrorist activity abroad breeds domestic terrorism at home.
     
  2. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    Yeah. If only there was some sort of clue... cambo.jpg
     
  3. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    I’m definitely 100% glad that neither of the two women won. They were bloody awful, if they are the very best females that Labour have in the party than I’d hate to see those deemed not as ‘good’ as them.

    Burham has about as much charisma as a used chip wrapper. I quite like some of JC’s economic and non- interventionist foreign policies. But, and this a huge but, where he will fall down is if he doesn’t listen to grass roots British people across the UK when it comes to immigration.


    It’s a huge issue for people here. The last serious poll done showed overwhelmingly that the public either want much less immigration or even a total end to it. If he wants his party to win then he must reflect this in policy and word. People like this (see link) will just lose him support;

    https://www.facebook.com/BBCYork/videos/1030068933693025/?pnref=story
     
  4. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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  5. Crusade24

    Crusade24 New Member

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    I couldn't vote during the Blair years but looking back on it with my current political beliefs I can unequivocally say I wouldn't have voted for him. During the 2010 elections I voted for the Lib Dems but this was before I developed the views I have now.

    This year I almost didn't vote but in the end voted Conservative. In some ways I regret that now because of some of their authoritarian and interventionist policies such as the introduction of the snooper's charter and their push for more intervention in Syria.

    I like Corbyn's foreign policy and support it the most out of everybody for sure. It's nice to have a politician who would rather think before they act, who would rather use diplomacy and try and negotiate rather than jump in with sanctions or threats of war (or even acts of war). I am a strong non-interventionist who is disillusioned with a lot of politicians when it comes to that subject.

    However that is only one issue amongst several. When I tell you that I am a free market capitalist and believe that there are too many government regulations and that the tories aren't right wing enough (though me and Corbyn would agree on corporatism being awful) economically then you'd get an idea of why I'd never vote Labour.

    I'm also a little iffy on some of Corbyn's policy from a supporter of his standpoint. For example, he's clearly against what he calls "global capitalism" yet despite that he hasn't given the slightest indication that he'd want to leave the EU even though they are leaders of the horrible TTIP policy which would essentially make corporations as powerful as sovereign nations. At least he is critical of the EU which is better than most of the left.

    So yeah, if you haven't been able to tell I'm very much libertarian leaning politically so fat chance of me ever voting Labour. I think it's a good thing he's been elected though, it should at least shake up things and bring about new debate. For too long things have been stagnant on that end.
     
  6. Crusade24

    Crusade24 New Member

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    I just heard on the news that Corbyn is considering campaigning to get us out of the EU so scrap that last point.
     
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Economically I am too far away from you so lets leave that. I seem to remember that the EU is now keeping quiet about TTIP which just would be the end.

    I think from what you say you are quite young. Corbyn is criticised by critics for still being the same. There was a time when this country did believe in diplomacy and avoiding war if at all possible. The people, not government of this country stopped us being dragged into Vietnam.

    I hear Corbyn, coming from that time when Politicians took the time to learn about those things which they are making decisions about, is hoping to create an environment within the party where people learn about things and discuss them rather than have a pre set script which one announces in order to not be slagged - who knows if people started understanding things again we might get some sanity back into this world. If politicians start being honest and have to back up their own view rather than the usual puppet script dreadful lack of freedom of political debate we have moved into we might with some extra other changes begin to get a free society with free speech and democracy again - something which we had in this country from around the 60's to the 80's.

    I heard one of the Tories yesterday saying Corbyn was this nice polite man they are all calling him but he had some friends who were not above protests!!!!!! Of course Corbyn has been protesting all his life but whoever it was I was listening to was horrified that people might go on protest marches, like we used to ;), and not leave Government inside Parliament to decide.

    Corbyn voted against the EU in 75. I am guessing going along with Ben's thoughts that Britain should be a peaceful nation with a strong presence in the UN and that the EU and Globalising would destroy democracy - of course he was quite right then. I am finding it hard at the moment. Being Scottish pro Independence one of the possible triggers for another Indy is if England choose to move out but Scotland to stay in. I liked being part of the EU for many years just because I could still hear a left argument coming from there and the Court seemed to give some good results. However since 2001 European countries have moved to the right, some of them to the far right. I would still vote to stay in if proper changes were made making it more democratic and so on but then the way they treated Greece had me thinking No and as you say TTIP which would just be back to slavery. As you noted we are now hearing that Corbyn has not as yet made up his mind about the EU. They were reckoning that if he goes with coming out that will be it. Then I will not know what to do. Unless I change my mind I think I would need to vote to stay in, even though I may later say the opposite, because although I think Corbyn offers some hope for the future of England, there is a hell of a lot of bordering far right there as well. Without some guarantee that Corbyn and those of similar minds would be ruling the country for the next 20 years, I would need to go for Indy. An England not in the EU with the amount of ethnic nationalism in some would not be a country I would want to be a part of.

    That is another place where they are setting him up to fail. Khan said yesterday, we will see how things are going with the Scottish elections next year. I doubt anyone will get voted into the Scottish Parliament because of Corbyn but he is very popular up here.
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally I think that this proposed solution is kind of brilliant!!!!!!

    This really could be a way of saving tens of thousand, or even millions of lives!
     
  9. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    Is he? That would be a very smart and very popular move on his part if it’s the case.
     
  10. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    Talking of Blair, come with me if you will into my time machine of facts.

    1997

    On May 2nd, the British Labour Party Leader, Tony Blair is elected as Prime Minister. Prior to his election, the man in charge of donations to Blair’s, “private office,” donations which reached the princely sum of seven million pounds, was none other than Blair’s tennis partner, a Jew, Michael Levy.

    Furthermore, Levy agreed to raise large sums of money for the Labour Party, so long as they never became, “anti-Israel,” whilst Blair is leader.

    Interestingly Blair was initially introduced to Levy at a dinner party in 1994, by Gideon Meir, a senior Israeli diplomat.

    Levy has also acted as a fundraiser for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, and both his children live in Israel.

    Another Jew, David Sainsbury, becomes the Labour Party’s single largest donator this year when he donated one million pounds to the party. Co-incidentally both Levy and Sainsbury are given life peerages and become Lords, following Blair’s election victory.

    On May 6th, only four days after Tony Blair’s election as Prime Minister, his Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, announces he is going to give full independence from political control to the Bank of England.
     
  11. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    Thursday 15th April 2010

    David Cameron this week insisted a Conservative government would do "much more to protect and empower the Jewish community" and described learning about his Jewish ancestors as one of the highlights of his year.

    http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/c-13853/cameron-i-will-empower-uk-jews/

    What about empowering the non Jewish working and middle class British people, Davey boy?
     
  12. trout mask replica

    trout mask replica New Member

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    Have you heard of somebody called Daniel Bethlehem? He is one of the most repugnant but influential of all the establishment's behind the scenes movers and shakers who has literally reconfigured how international law is interpreted among the elite for the benefit of Zion-con interests. He was rewarded for his services to Zion by the Queen. I confess, that I had never heard of him until Craig Murray wrote about him here:

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/the-appalling-sir-daniel-bethlehem/

    To get more of an idea just how evil this man is, and how it dovetails in with the extrajudicial murder of two British citizens by drone in Syria, read this:

    http://cultureandpolitics.org/2015/...ment-consensus-surrounding-the-use-of-drones/

    After reading all this, I have to say I was stunned.
     
  13. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    I haven't heard that name, but I will certainly read up on it now.
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They were worried that his brother Piers could be a problem for him since his brother is 180 on just about everything and is an actual scientist.
     
  15. Crusade24

    Crusade24 New Member

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    Interesting, there is indeed a certain amount of political leverage and power gets when one gets stayed allied with Israel in the case of political donations to campaigns for elections. Political lobbying certainly as a common knowledge to the public will mean that it isn't surprising when one learns of the people that have backed Prime Ministers of the past.

    As for the Bank of England, if there is one thing that is worse than a Central Bank (which is bad enough in itself) it is a Central Bank that is private and can act on it's own accord. One of the worst acts Gorden Brown did whilst in government was to allow the FSA to be set up and to control the Bank of England. We have seen the extent for example the Federal Reserve and the amount of damage it has done to the American economy by not being held accountable to anyone but themselves. The same can be said of the Bank of England to a lesser extent. At least here now there has been political motions put in place to audit the Bank of England but such things cannot be said of the FED.

    #AuditTheFED #EndCentralBankingCartel etc.
     
  16. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    I wonder why. I mean, it’s not like the Fed could possibly have anything to hide, esp since only the finest of men like Greenspan, Bernake, and now Janet Yellen are and have been in charge.

    It certainly cannot be that the Fed is a cabal of private bankers that engage in ethnic nepotism.

    No danger is it that.

    There would be evidence or something….


    [video=youtube;4XmSIuTqZBc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=4XmSIuTqZBc[/video]
     
  17. Crusade24

    Crusade24 New Member

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    At least Corbyn has principles and ideas, that's far better than a lot of career politicians who are scripted to death and jump on whatever bandwagon is at the time popular. The worst example of that is the previous leader Ed Miliband. An absolutely dreadful politician with no backbone or principles whatsoever, complete puppet. You ever seen this little nugget?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCV5XWiW6gc

    Hideous.

    Agreed on that principle but there is needs to be a complete overhaul in attitude from all sides of the political spectrum in Westminster.

    I'd have to read/watch what the person said in context to judge that but it's part of the reason why I believe personally government should be smaller....a lot smaller (which we probably will disagree on). After all the government should serve us, we the people, not rule all over us. Part of that is standing up and demanding action.

    I think Farage put the EU question best a few days ago: It is not a left or right wing question but whether or not we want control over our own destiny and sovereignty. From your perspective I understand there is the potential for people to be in power who you feel would lead the country in the wrong direction, however right now none of that will matter as long as we are in the EU. As long as there is the potential for further policies handed down by the EU, some of which are already in place that will not only effectively take away the power to govern ourselves such as having our own immigration policy and the ability to conduct our own trade deals as the 5th largest economy in the world (we can't even make deals with China and Iceland negotiated a trade deal with them just this year) then you will not be able to have the chance to take action and change the shape of politics in the UK as long as we have the EU hanging over us at every corner.

    TTIP for example has the potential to rear it's ugly head round again or something that is a lot worse and we as a country would not be able to fundamentally reject it as part of the EU because the EU is effectively seen as one economic power with all of it's member states involved.

    Then there is Greece as you mentioned, the Eurocrats and the bankers essentially have Greece by the balls and the single Euro currency has helped to destroy many an economy: Spain, Portugal and Ireland being three more examples. The idea that you can have one currency, one central EU bank setting the interest rates for 27 different countries with fundamentally different economic structures is simply an insane idea that has had horrendous consequences.

    As for Scotland and Independence, at the end of the day I believe Scotland should be able to control it's own destiny. One may argue that Scotland already had the Independence question and has made up it's mind. That it is a dead question. However if things were to change and indicate a major change within the relationship between Scotland and the UK then I see no reason as to why you can't have a second referendum.

    The funny thing is my radical brain would advocate a federal system in the UK if Scotland were to stay permanently where England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would have similar powers to that of the States in America where you would have complete power over your spending and rule of law with only a set number of laws which would apply to all through the Central Government. But obviously for that to work we'd need our own Constitution and Bill of Rights and I doubt that's happening any time soon :p
     
  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I actually was one of the few people who quite liked Ed Miliband until his visit to Scotland which he was unable to handle and during the May election when he was awful and still failed to bother to find out what was really going on in Scotland. Problem with him is that he does not have charisma and was stupid enough to try and pretend it.

    Corbyn has made his first change for public opinion. He says he will be singing the National Anthem in future.


    Yes it does. However if people start knowing what they are actually talking about that is the first step and can start to produce good debate - we might even find them starting to value integrity again.

    I agree the Government is to serve us. I to some extent agree with Tocqueville that most things should be done at local level and Central Government should just deal with things like money and foreign affairs, I think that was what he believed. He thought the local people knew best what was right for them and so they should decide. At the same time we need a strong Scottish Parliament at the moment looking out for the needs of the people but certainly should we go for Indy then as much as possible should be done at local level. Thatcher destroyed our Local Government by massively reducing the money they received.

    I have a distinct bias against Farage ;) It seems to me that left wing people who want out do so for different reasons - or maybe not. Maybe it is more that I can see them moving in different ways after.

    Now on immigration. Scotland is not full. We want more people so the EU suits us fine. I am more concerned about the way it has moved right wing and that it does appear to quietly be imprisoning us with TTIP which of course leads to the third thing that it currently lacks democracy. We should not forget however that it has done what nothing else did and kept European countries free from being at war with each other. The EU's problems seem to have started when she far too quickly brought in East European countries.
    Well to be honest from what I have noticed the Tories love TTIP. It is something against the people and something which I am pretty sure the EU is bringing in quietly.
    The currency I think was brought in because of fears of where Germany might go after reunification. The way they are (*)(*)(*)(*)ing around with Greece however rather than helping them does not have the spirit of an EU I am particularly interested in....and yes, that was the bankers gambles which got Greece regardless of what people like to say.

    It is seen differently in Scotland. BBC Scotland does not usually do this but when interviewing Corbyn they asked him if he would have a problem allowing another Indyref. He said that's not important at the moment and the interviewers said 'It is in Scotland'. It has never stopped for those who want it. Many people, particularly pensioners, voted on terrifying misinformation which the Unionists did in the last 3 or 4 weeks. Every poll since the Referendum has had a higher yes than the 45 with some a yes positive and there has been a mass of polls the last few weeks due to the anniversary which seems to suggest there might now be a majority in favour. Hard one to call as some say so and others not and they all have different ways of weighting and so on. When the polls are somewhere between 55% and 60% consistently then the SNP will demand a referendum despite Cameron saying he will not allow it - and Cameron does know how close it was. I think the SNP are giving details of how they will sort this out in their election manifesto for next year.

    Open Democracy have been working on the Constitution thing and it is not outwith Corbyns ability to get that going. The EU bill of rights was devised by Britain so do not see where the problem is. Scotland has to stay with that by our devolution agreement ;) Northern Ireland too!

    Apart from that I would have been in favour of a federal system just as you have said. That would give Scotland as strong a voice as England. I don't know if you are aware but when Scotland and Wales got devolution the idea was to bring this to the whole of the British Isles. There would have been 6 or 9 regions in England. However Blair who put it in did not want it so the North of England did not have it properly explained to them and thought it was just bureaucracy and so said no and no one else was asked. The whole point of this had been to find a way to make the UK properly democratic. Along with it went things like freedom of information and a written constitution. Our freedom of information improved to some extent but we never got a written constitution. Open Democracy believed that that was the last chance to save the UK. Very possibly right.
     
  19. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    They are wetting the bed about him not singing “God save the Queen” now.
     
  20. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

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  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  22. Sly Lampost

    Sly Lampost New Member

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    And isn't this telling. If nothing else it demonstrably shows that the bulk of Labour MP's are completely out of touch with their roots. Since Corbyn's election another 15,000 plus people have joined the labour party. Over 40,000 gave him questions to ask at PMQ's yesterday.

    Let's hope Corbyn can continue to change things for the better as Blair's "New Labour" fabrication was simply awful.
     
  23. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    I think the perceived threat is to Cameron's security as PM. He is clearly rattled that he and the Tories might have opposition with real teeth for once.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, obviously a dangerous subversive!
     
  24. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Its his Hamas + Hizbullah "friends" that worried Israel, bur silver surfer is right, we hardly know anything about him and the media crowned him as the next nemesis, which is dumb IMO, for one his chances to be a PM are slim and for the other that his opinions and actions will remain the same should he ever be PM...,

    But his views on Israel are just a drop I suppose to what he belives should be in the UK, and on that I know very little, what country do you hold as a good example for socialism ?
     
  25. Sly Lampost

    Sly Lampost New Member

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    Nicely said.

    The TTIP is just about the most undemocratic, unrepresentative and heinous proposal I've not had the ability to ever fully read. The very idea that it has to remain secret during the negotiating phase is a hideous thought:

    Source.

    And as far as I know, the £100k bounty Wikileaks published for a full copy of the TTIP still hasn't been collected, which speaks volumes, I think.
     

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