Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Bluesguy, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So either the Democrats nominate perhaps one of the most corrupt public officials ever whose actions have endangered our national security and lie upon lie has been exposed and may very well be under a federal indictment as the election comes around or an avowed socialist who will bankrupt the country even worse than the Obama administration has managed to do.

    Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

    Democratic presidential candidate’s agenda would greatly expand government

    WASHINGTON—Sen. Bernie Sanders, whose liberal call to action has propelled his long-shot presidential campaign, is proposing an array of new programs that would amount to the largest peacetime expansion of government in modern American history.

    In all, he backs at least $18 trillion in new spending over a decade, according to a tally by The Wall Street Journal, a sum that alarms conservatives and gives even many Democrats pause. Mr. Sanders sees the money as going to essential government services at a time of increasing strain on the middle class.

    His agenda includes an estimated $15 trillion for a government-run health-care program that covers every American, plus large sums to rebuild roads and bridges, expand Social Security and make tuition free at public colleges.

    To pay for it, Mr. Sanders, a Vermont independent running for the Democratic nomination, has so far detailed tax increases that could bring in as much as $6.5 trillion over 10 years, according to his staff.

    [​IMG]

    A campaign aide said additional tax proposals would be offered to offset the cost of some, and possibly all, of his health program. A Democratic proposal for such a “single-payer” health plan, now in Congress, would be funded in part through a new payroll tax on employers and workers, with the trade-off being that employers would no longer have to pay for or arrange their workers’ insurance.

    Mr. Sanders declined a request for an interview. His campaign referred questions to Warren Gunnels, his policy director, who said the programs would address an array of problems. “Sen. Sanders’s agenda does cost money,” he said. “If you look at the problems that are out there, it’s very reasonable.”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511
     
  2. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    The man is a loon. He at least understands that the two party system is a scam, but then contradicts himself by insisting the only way to fix it is to vote democrat. Not much different than the lunatic extremists who think voting republican will solve all our problems, when their schemes are just as responsible for the decline in the country's economy as the democrats are.
     
  3. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    When does he ever insist on voting Dem? The man is the definition of bipartisan, he's made a career of making EVERYONE work with him.

    It should also be noted that the people screaming about a $18T price tag are the same who would have to pay the transaction tax Sanders would use to pay for his ideas. Take their numbers with a healthy serving of salt.
     
  4. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    He could pay for that and more by cutting our defense budget to match our next closest competitor

    But if he's nominated he'll lose for just this reason. The fearmongers, warmongers and war profiteers run this country now and their propaganda has us all (*)(*)(*)(*)ting our pants every five minutes over some nonexistent "threat" and has for so long we're all used to it. Hell, conservatives even BELIEVE that bushwa. We're going to do just what Russia did in the 1980's, begin to believe our own paranoia until it bankrupts us, only we don't even need another side to be afraid of, we're doing it all on our own
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    18 Trillion over 10 years? That sounds about right. However don't worry about where the money comes from. I hear from reliable Democratic sources that the President has his own personal stash.
     
  6. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Over 10 years? Leagalize and tax weed nationally and increase taxes slightly. I'm only 1/2 serious but still, spread over 10 years is not that much money.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    First you assume that is the only tax he will propose, second that it would pass, third it would raise the amounts claimed, fourth that taking $18T out of the economy in mass wealth transfer schemes would not have a detrimental affect on the economy as a whole, fifth that more entitlements is better than more people working to provide for their own needs. He he has ZERO record of getting ANYONE to work with him.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And why on earth would you want to do that? You think war is supposed to be fair our something?

    What happens if two competitors team up against us and then a third one decides to make a move on an ally?

    Sorta like the war to end all wars and peace in our times thingys?
     
  9. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    YOU assume that he'd implement unfunded programs, that someone with no enemies in congress couldn't get anything passed and that the $18T number (offered by Wall Street) is legitimate.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Yes the old legalize-it-and-we-can-balance-the-budget trope. Ha! It never gets old...
     
  11. Marcotic

    Marcotic Well-Known Member

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    I saw that 15T number, for health care during that same period and thought- well how much are US citizens already spending on health care? Turns out, if the 15T number can be believed, and my source (which cites 42T on health care alone during that period) can be believed then that's a savings of something like 27T total over the course of that period.

    (42-15 =27)

    Which, factoring the other 3T the WSJ estimates, means that BS is saving us, the US citizen, 24T if those 2 numbers are compared.

    (27-3T= 24T)

    "But health care is nevertheless a good place to examine why these big numbers can be so misleading. At the moment, total health care spending in the United States runs over $3 trillion a year; according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, over the next decade (from 2015-2024), America will spend a total of $42 trillion on health care. This is money that you and I and everyone else spends. We spend it in a variety of ways: through our health-insurance premiums, through the reduced salaries we get if our employers pick up part or all of the cost of those premiums, through our co-pays and deductibles, and through our taxes that fund Medicare, Medicaid, ACA subsidies, and the VA health care system. We’re already paying about $10,000 a year per capita for health care."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-bankrupt-america-to-the-tune-of-18-trillion/

    Now, for some, the principle of paying other people's way is so abhorrent that any savings is irrelevant. I respect that, even if I don't agree. Other will undoubtedly question the numbers- I really don't have the time or know-how to argue about their accuracy. I am assuming both sources are a fair representation.

    But if you were to ask me about a proposal that saves 23T the US citizenry over the course of the next decade while ensuring that every US citizen has access to healthcare, and if what you said was true, I would be very happy.

    NOTE of course:
    The 42T is total citizen spending on healthcare, including out of pocket, off of paycheck, and, I believe employer contributions and tax subsidized/paid programs NOT just tax burden. In short- Taxes go up, over all citizen spending goes down. Still a win IMO.
     
  12. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Worked for all the states that did.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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  14. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    18 Trillion not billion. There isn't enough weed on planet earth that can pay that note. The human mind cant even grasp how large this number is.
    Here lets do some math. Letst legalize weed and conservatively say with our profits we will apply 10 million dollars per day to pay off the 18 trillion dollar debt.
    Tell the forum how many years we will need to legalize pot for in order to pay off just our current debt.
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The spending on medicare for all is no different than paying your private sector insurance premiums. You would just pay medicare. You will pay regardless, so why not call it what it is insurance premiums.

    Regardless of what is taxed, we should be ashamed of our grade D infrastructure, and it has to be fixed and modernized, so that spending is required.

    On the tuition for state colleges being paid for with taxes, we just tax tranactions on wall street, which should be taxed anyways to pay for it. It is a smart move..
     
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Because the government doesn't pay for my insurance premiums.
     
  17. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    As I said, I wasn't being serious. Still not any worse than our ridiculous military budget. I'd rather spend that on improving the standard of living of Americans than pointless wars.
     
  18. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are comparing a military budget to a number the human mind is incapable of grasping. Please do the math. My example forces the brain to accept how large 18Trillion dollars is. Can you tell the forum what the answer is to my math question?
     
  19. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Over 10 years the military budget is in the same range. Do you not realize just how much we spend?
     
  20. Crusade24

    Crusade24 New Member

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    It's as if the left don't realize that the US is $20 Trillion in debt already. So by the end of a Sanders presidency, it would have almost doubled again. Just how long do you think you can continue pile on more debt and deficits before the economy collapses?
     
  21. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except for the fact that he caucuses with dems.
     
  22. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    Traditionally the left (or what passes for it in America) deals with the deficit while the right blows it up. Sanders would certainly grow the government by a large amount but pay for it with tax hikes. If Repub governments weren't so scared of taxes, the surplus would still exist and the debt would have been paid off in '06.
     
  23. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please answer my question or stop quoting me. Its simple math.
     
  24. DavidMK

    DavidMK Well-Known Member

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    And gets a standing ovation at the most conservative university in America. He has to caucus with someone if he expects to have seniority or sit on committees and a socialist caucusing with the Repubs just doesn't work.
     
  25. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is 18 trillion added to the already growing spending caused by Obama so if Bernie keeps the Obama already growing spending it will be 30 trillion. then add that to the debt now we will be 50 trillion in debt by the end of that decade
     

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