Abu Mazen: Pre-67 Land Also "Occupied"

All is fine and dandy... World Jewry are definitely the indigenous people of their country, the Arabs/Muslims are the squatters, conquerors of a Jewish Land that does not belong to them! Justifying such inequity is the most outrageous statement ever!

 

B.S. Neturei Karta determination formulated by one Israel Baal Shem Tov living then in a forest where hardly one could wash.

Here is what I did write a few years past on this subject matter...

Satmar/Naturei Karta
Satmar + Naturei Karta are TWO minute SECTS calling themselves Jews, one the "SATMAR" and the other "NATUREI KARTA" are sister SECTS totaling a few thousands each... The majority of the SATMAR live in Brooklyn or Kiryat-Yoel in the US and, the majority of the NATUREI KARTA = Guardian of the Gates live in a quarter in Jerusalem called MEA SHEARIM = One hundred Gates.
Both sister organizations are the most virulent Anti - Israel and Anti-Zionist groups on this earth.
In reference to the above, I have on several occasions asked myself... why does a Jew (if in reality these people consider themselves Jews) abhors and abominates another Jew, denigrates him and tramples upon him by all kind of public Newspaper ads and Electronic Links? Is it passion, zeal, religious fervor, or plain old "hate and fear" of the educated, the learned the emancipated, the cultured/cultivated and the enlightened? What is it then? Well, through the years of researches I have come to a unique realization.
It is obvious that the confrontation is between two forces, the forces of light versus the forces of darkness...
The forces of light are the average educated Jew not necessarily religious who believes in the RECONSTITUTION of the State of Israel and… The forces of darkness are these same Satmar + Naturei Karta who are the quasi-religious Jews who follow the dictates of their UNLEARNED RABBI (none of them BTW can produce a diploma from a college/university of higher learning) who have summarily ordered to their quasi followers to honor and believe that Israel CAN BE ONLY RECONSTITUTED WHEN THE MESSIAH returns TO EARTH... These two backward sects project the behavior of the dark ages of the 11th Century Europe, they also act, dress, and behave accordingly.
The readers of this thread will pick and chose and differentiate between these two forces;
a) Those that are emancipated... versus…
b) Those that pop out like a sore thumb in the middle of the 21st Century, dressed in black "Regalia" of the Ghetto/Shtetl of Medieval Europe, and are still thinking and behaving accordingly.
I do RESPECT [my Brothers & Sisters] the religious Jews that know the limits of their Religiosity, and do not offend anyone... for their prayers and fervor are dedicated to G-d HASHEM ELOKIM.
Would I have the same tendentious RESPECT towards the leader of the SATMAR, Joel Teitelbaum, who in 1950 issued a "ukase" (decree) prohibiting his followers from learning and speaking Hebrew? NO!
Would I have any respect for the present leader of the SATMAR + NATUREI KARTA who orders his followers to burn the Israeli Flag on Purim and Lag Ba-Omer holidays, while giving the young children their first hair cut? NO!
Would I love my fellow Jew of the SATMAR + NATUREI KARTA who Joins in demonstration with the PLO/PA demanding the destruction of the 'State of Israel? NO!
Would I be going in the street on the orders of the SATMAR + NATUREI KARTA Rebbe stoning cars for any reason? NO!
These are only a sample of what the "SATMAR" and the "NATUREI KARTA" have had for us since a Long Time. They say that the State of Israel by its very existence is an abomination against G-d. What an heresy, what a pompous deliberate infamy what a lie what an ignominy!
These quasi Hassidism = Religious Jews, from which the SATMAR + NATUREI KARTA sprung, from a social movement that was originally founded in Eastern Europe by Israel Baal Shem Tov (1699-1760), usually referred to by the acrostic BeShT. It taught that what G-d wanted of man WAS NOT asceticism and the mortification of the flesh, but devotion or (DVEKUT), Joy (SIMHAH), Enthusiasm (HITLAHVUT).
These two-minute Sects have no right whatsoever to speak on behalf of Judaism since they take their orders from their misinformed, backward and maladjusted Rebbe.
Please do not take these “scorn of humanity” neither as any responsible body nor as a representative of Judaism and the State of Israel... They only represent their pitiful self!

 

all Orthodox Jews around the world understand that the Galut is a spiritual status, not a physical one.

Jews in Israel still live in Galut, until Moshiach comes.

- - - Updated - - -

Arabs who's ancestors go back hundreds of years, are not foreigners in Palestine.

such a claim is absurd

 

BS all these supposedly Rabbis say what they say to their congregation because without their congregation they will have to find a menial job or die of hunger.

Absurd????????????????????????
I think what you advocate definitely is!

Anyone who puts his country on such an agonizing situation, anyone who wants to dispense with another 6 million Jews on a false Neturei Karta/Satmar ideology is "non causa pro causa" = "No cause for cause"...

The theory of waiting for a Mashiach is long gone my friend... and the reason we have our 'Land Back' is that the Mashiach is already between us and Satmar/Neturei Karta have no leg to stand on.

 

millions of Orthodox and Conservative Jews believe the Moshiach may still come.

and until that day, we still live in Galut, which is a spiritual state of exile/punishment due to the Jews' disobedience against God's laws and rules.

if the Galut was over, the Land of Israel would be in eternal peace and tranquility, just as the Bible says.

the fact that the Jews in the Land of Israel still live in fear & suffering PROVES that Moshiach has not yet come and the Galut has not ended.

this is what we have believed for thousands of years.

 

Carry on believing friend for this is no skin off my nose.
The belief in a Machiah is surpassed by an intellectual fantasy!

If we have to wait another 2000 years to see one, is worthless for the 'Land of Israel' will be by then long gone FOREVER!!!

 

ironic how you mock and reject the idea of Moshiach, and yet talk about "Galut" and call the Land of Israel the "jewish patromony".

Galut, is a theological and religious Jewish concept.

The Jewish patronomy, is another religious Jewish concept.

so, it looks like you embrace Jewish theology when it fits your political agenda, but reject it when it conflicts with your political agenda.

what a disgusting and sacrilegious abuse of the Jewish faith.

 

So be it... You wait for the Mashiah while Israel is enjoying its PATRIMONY!!!

Galut = Diaspora...

 

no, Galut= exile.

I clearly know a lot more about Judaism than you do.

 

Probably you know about Satmar theology... I am a Nationalist fought three times for the defense of the Jewish Patrimony while you were watching and reading about it!!

Exile = Diaspora = Galut same thing... those Jews living abroad are living in the diaspora...

 

The Galut is a spiritual/religious term.

it lasts until the Messiah arrives.

if you are a Jew you know this.

..though I guess its possible you have ZERO religious education and knowledge, and don't know a thing about the Galut


but if you have ZERO Jewish education and knowledge, why do you keep speaking of the Jewish patrimony?

the Jewish patrimony is a religious concept,.

The Torah says that God have the Jews the land of Israel as part of an everlasting Covenant.

The Jews follow God's laws, and in exchange God gives them the Land of Israel and protects them from harm.

but twice the Jews' disobedience was soo great, that he punished the Jews by kicking them out of Israel.

obviously this punishment is not yet over, as God promised acts of sudden terror if they disobeyed God, and the Jews have suffered acts of sudden terror in Israel for the last 80 years.

 

Inventing the Palestinian People



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYMviMHH0nc

This is a very important video that dispels the myth that the Palestinian Arabs have a claim to the Land of Israel. Discover the true origin of these people and you will understand the true purpose behind the Palestinian myth.

Anti-Israel activists say that the Jewish people violently expelled the true inhabitants of the land. Is there any truth whatsoever in their claim that the Jewish people stole the land? Should the land be given back? To whom?

After watching this video, the answer becomes very clear. There is no legitimate Palestinian claim to the Land of Israel.

This video explores the origin of the Palestinian people, challenging the Arab claim that they have lived in the Land of Israel since time immemorial.

**After watching this video, the answer becomes very clear. There is no legitimate Palestinian claim to the Land of Israel.

Jerusalem Jews and Muslims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9CauJP4Pg

 

MOD EDIT - Rule 3
"Israel" is rarely mentioned in Extra-Biblical records while Palestine & the Levant have been universally accepted geographic locations[1]

How can one change history?

Being a Native, resident of Palestine is a viable identity. One cannot "convert" to having a family history of generations in Palestine or change that family

Being Jewish or not is a matter of choice. On the other hand, one can convert to Judaism & become Jewish or one can convert to another faith and no longer be Jewish

For every one of your phony "Studies" & Home-made U-Tube out of Hasbara Studios there are a dozen either legitimate findings refuting it:


“New Genome Study Destroys Zionist Claims to Palestine! “

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...ign-myth-of-jewish-genome-to-usurp-palestine/
“ EXCERPT On December 14, 2012, Dr. Eran Elhaik turned almost two generations of Jewish genome research upside down.
-
But he went even further. The young Israeli-American geneticist has charged former researchers with academic fraud, and he has the research to back it up.
-
How could those those(*)eminent Jewish scientist before him have been so wrong? Easy says Dr. Elhaik, “First these researchers decided what conclusions they wanted to find, and then they set off to find evidence to support it.” I was not bashing Jewish scientists. What Elhaik has described is a slam dunk fraud.
-
But why?(*)Why would Jews who take such pride in the academic achievement risk exposing themselves to a group deception which was bound to be discovered later?

They perpetrated the fraud solely to support the bogus biblical claim to Palestine which was anchored in their being a separate people. This distinguished them from all others because they claimed a land title in their blood.
-
They bet the farm on this DNA proof of purchase, a God given(*)bar coded passport to the Palestine. Dr. Ehaik just erased the bar code. It was just stamped on anyway, because it was never in the blood.”CONTINUED


MOD EDIT - Rule 3


Palestine's Native Residents have an irrefutable, ancient & genetic connection to the geographic location known as the Levant while yours is very likely not unless you are of Palestine's 2% - 4% Sephardic, Jewish population back to 1850.

MOD EDIT - Rule 3





[1] “DECONSTRUCTING THE WALLS OF JERICO”
“IN ANCIENT EGYPT, CANAAN REVISITED WITHOUT ISRAEL”
http://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/in-ancient-egypt-canaan-revisited-without-israel/

EXCERPT "In his article “Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho“, appearing in Ha’aretz (29 October 1999),(*)Ze’ev Herzog(*)calls the mention of Israel on the stele a reference to “population group of nomads” who most probably were always on the move, looking for fertile land to herd their animals. In the article Herzog concludes.

“Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out:

The patriarchs’ acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, and we did not conquer the land.

Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon.

Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn’t want to hear about it.”
Egypt is(*)mentioned in the Holy Bible approximately 700 times (Egypt: 595 times, Egyptian(s): 120 times).

Israelites were mentioned in the ancient Egyptian records once or … maybe none at all."CONTINUED

 

I think the above statement vies for the title of "most outrageous statement ever!", that, or the most misinformed.

 

What? Have you read all of rule 150? there is no requirement of "sovereignty", individuals can seek reparations from a state.

 

Well if you must use agenda ridden sites to make a point, make sure they get the facts right. The Swedish article is based "loosely" on this police report https://www.polisen.se/Global/www o... paverkan i lokalsamhallet Sekretesspr 14.pdf

I've lived in Sweden and have friends there and have a basic grasp of the language, the first line of the report translates roughly as, "Currently in Sweden there are 55 geographic areas where local criminal networks are considered to have a negative impact on the local community" The entire report never mentions Muslim or Islamist gangs although it recognises that muslim immigtants live in some of these areas, it does not attribute Islamism as a contributory factor. You seem to be fearmongering here. This Swedish newspaper debunks the whole myth
http://www.metro.se/nyheter/nej-mus...-svenska-bostadsomraden/EVHnkq!MOPV8BpNwFaFI/

 

Of course it is <outrageous> because it is <simply> true!!!

Go there and enjoy <reality> for a change...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbf2LjF8OPw

 

Some of the PEOPLE in Judea - Samaria (which have actually not been entities for a very, very long time) may have the Jewish faith, but LAND cannot be 'Jewish'. The land known to you as Judea - Samaria is known to the rest of the world as occupied Jordan (West Bank), and the Golan is Syrian.

 

Challenger; et al,

Interesting you have mentioned this.

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians have long established historical pattern of criminal behaviors and terrorist attacks against civilians; dating back to before they formally declared independence in 1988. this might include:



October 1985 - January 1986
Hijacking of cruise ship Achille Lauro;
Bombing of Rome, Vienna airports

On Oct. 7, 1985, off the coast of Egypt, four gunmen hijacked the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro and demanded the release of Palestinian prisoners in Egypt, Italy, and elsewhere. When the demands weren't met, they killed Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old disabled American tourist. Investigators blamed the Palestine Liberation Front, which some believed to be allied with Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization. Later, U.S. officials were able to link Libya to the PLF and the hijacking.

After the hijackers escaped the Achille Lauro and left Egypt by air, U.S. Navy fighters intercepted their plane and forced it down in Italy. The four hijackers were apprehended, and in 1986, they were found guilty in an Italian court. Two of the hijackers escaped from prison. One, Magid al-Molgi, who confessed to killing Mr. Klinghoffer, was caught and returned to prison. The man identified as the mastermind of the hijacking, Abu Abbas, was released by Italy despite Washington's pleas that he be held for trial.

Then on Dec. 17, 1985, airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, five of whom were Americans. This time, U.S. officials said they were able to link Libya to the bombing attacks. In January, U.S. officials decided to send the Navy and its warplanes to patrol the Gulf of Sidra -- in territorial waters claimed by Libya -- in an effort to provoke Qaddafi. The White House warned Qaddafi that any Libyan forces further than 12 miles from shore were subject to attack. (The U.S. and other nations used an international standard, set at only 12 miles from Libya's coast, to mark the country's territorial waters; Qaddafi said that Libya's territorial waters extended more than 100 miles from the coastline.) At this point, the face-off between the U.S. and Libya escalated.
​

April 5, 1986
Bombing of La Belle Discotheque

An American soldier was killed when a bomb was detonated at La Belle, a discotheque in West Berlin known to be popular with off-duty U.S. servicemen. A Turkish woman was killed, and nearly 200 others were wounded. U.S. intelligence sources identified Libya as being responsible for the attack. [For more on the evidence pointing to Libya, see interviews with Paul Bremer, Caspar Weinberger, and Robert Oakley.] In Berlin, five individuals were tried for carrying out the bombing of the discotheque. In November 2001, four of the defendants were convicted and sentenced, while the fifth was acquitted. The court found only Verena Chanaa guilty of murder; she was sentenced to 14 years. Prosecutors said Chanaa, a 42-year-old German national, brought the bomb into the disco in a handbag. Three other defendants were all convicted of multiple counts of attempted murder. Yasir Shraydi, a Palestinian who was said to have assembled the bomb, was sentenced to 14 years, while Musbah Eter, a Libyan diplomat, and Verena Chanaa's former husband, Palestinian Ali Chanaa, were sentenced to 12 years apiece. Verena Chanaa's sister, 36-year-old Andrea Haeusler, was acquitted. She had accompanied Verena Chanaa to the disco on the night of the bombing.

After U.S. intelligence intercepted Libyan government communications implicating Libya in the La Belle disco attack, President Reagan ordered retaliatory air strikes on Tripoli and Benghazi. The operation on April 15, 1986, dubbed Operation El Dorado Canyon, involved 200 aircraft and over 60 tons of bombs. One of the residences of Libyan leader Muammar el-Qadaffi was hit in the attack, which, according to Libyan estimates, killed 37 people and injured 93 others. As a result of this American operation, U.S. national security officials say Libyan-sponsored terrorism ceased "for a long time." (See interviews with Robert Oakley and L.Paul Bremer.)

Two days after the U.S. retaliatory attack, the bodies of three American University of Beirut employees -- American Peter Kilburn and Britons John Douglas and Philip Padfield -- were discovered near Beirut shot to death. The Arab Revolutionary Cells, a pro-Libyan group of Palestinians affiliated with terrorist Abu Nidal, claimed to have executed the three men in retaliation for Operation El Dorado Canyon.
​

The Palestinians have had an established policy of Jihad, in writing, since their Declaration of Independence. They openly glorify this jihadist activity. And they openly attack unarmed innocent civilians; a violation of establish Customary and IHL. Just the 1970 attacks against HM The King of Jordan or the 1972 Olympic Attack demonstrates that attacks on civilians go back more than four decades. And, the Palestinians have a long history of "incitement to violence" --- advocating the right to use "any and all means." So, the Palestinians have absolutely no room to talk concerning War Reparations. The historical record would crush the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

A bad rehash of Peters' often and long time debunked "From Time immemorial" by a Christian Zionist site is hardly what any rational person would consider either "true" or in any way based on reality. But hey, chacun à son goût.

 

Not sure of how this is in any way relevant to the OP but one can equally state, " Zionist Israelis have a long established historical pattern of criminal behaviors and terrorist attacks against civilians; dating back to before they formally declared independence in 1948." Just look up Lehi or the Stern Gang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

 

Actually, it calls for the recognition of, "our just cause that our land is occupied and not disputed territory, and this is true in regards to all of the territories Israel occupied before June 1967." There's nothing there about the destruction of israel, just the return of all territories illegally occupied by Zionist Israel since 1947-8. Mahmoud Abbas, has finally lost patience, or faith in an negotiated peace based on Oslo, so why not demand all the territory Palestinians are entitled to?

 

What a great thread. I have to mark this for later reading...

 

Abbas said that whole of the land of Israel is occupied by saying that even the lands that were in the hands of the Jews in 1947(prior to the existance of the state of Israel) is also occupied. Thus, if also the lands that Jews had in since 1947 till today are occupied, then it means that the "territories" he refers to is regarding to the all of the Land of Israel.

Because he concluded a year which was prior to the existacne of the Land of Israel is uccpied till today, it means that from 1947-2016 all the lands that the Jews have, were "Taken" from the "Palestinians". His demend includes the lands of the state of Israel (the year 194.

 

and you demand that only the Jews can have soverignity over the West Bank.

so you and Abbas are two sides of the same coin.