Why computers* will not become self aware.

You are winning because you are playing against a toy.

A computer can see large numbers of moves ahead, obviously. And, there is no justification for believing that a computer can not correctly evaluate a position.

 

Your link above is based on opinions and little data. We should not be discussing solar on this thread...thanks...

 

So, this columnist found someone who set out to prove solar doesn't work, and guess what? He failed to make solar work!!!

Then, YOU POSTED THAT!!!

I'll have to tell you, I can prove man can not achieve space flight, build a car from a pile of parts of my choosing, and all sorts of other things! I MUST be brilliant!

 

There are problems with passive solar, and active solar such as solar cells and and those problems are obvious. 100% Solar belongs on individual family dwellings where the inhabitants agree to sacrifice a little to be 'green', and even save a few bucks. I could live comfortably in a house of my design that draws 100% of its electricity via solar. The heating and AC would be done with renewable fuel sources.The energy costs would be dramatically less than a conventional home of the same size. Family dwellings or apartments etc are the limit of 100% of Solar electricity at this time. Solar space heating could provide all or most heat in a some temperate or semi tropical areas. However solar power can not provide many megawatt level electric demands. The mirror array that heats oil on hundreds of acres to generate steam is an exception to the rule. But its only suitable for most locations. Ditto wind. Solar's current technological level is not practical for light medium or heavy manufacturing facilitates in my opinion.
reva

 

I agree. Solar panels are cool but ungodly expensive. Here in east TN a full solar power unit that can supply about 50% of a 1600 sq homes electricity takes panels that are huge and covers most of the roof. I know because I talked to the owner. A standard solar panel that produces five thousand watts (think five medium size hair dryers) is costs about $2.30 per watt for the not installed panels. Do the math, 1500 times lets knock .30 cents. So with a 20 amp Circuit Breaker each 110 wall outlet can handle 1920 watts, so three 110 wall outlets can pump around six thousand watt with peaks much higher! ...Nah....give me good old fission generated TVA Legtricity......call me 'Mr glowing green'.....I am green now so the greenies can like me... eh?
reva

 

No it's not based on "opinions"

It's a blog on News Week...

Look, I could care less if you want to buy a million solar panels, but they're basically useless if you think you're being "green" or "efficient" by using them...

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Solar works, solar panels just don't justify themselves.

 

Don't forget about regional weather...

Solar panels presently are good for certain applications, but the notion they can power a robot is nonsensical...

I already have solar powered "robots"..... They only work when the Sun is out...

 

well, energy from gas and oil, does come from the sun.

 

Everything is possible.

 

What if we look at this issue globally instead of business to business? What if we wished to have a policy that said we cannot grow fossil fuel created energy from current levels and must also reduce current levels of demand by 25%?

Obviously, solar energy on it's own will not provide enough power for the 24/7 steel mill. But an option in the global picture is to offset the steel mill electrical demands by adding solar/wind in other applications which suit those energy technologies. If the steel mill uses a million kilowatt hours of fossil fuel energy, then simply install a million kilowatt hours of solar/wind in other applications in order to achieve some 'net' results. Further, if the steel mill must reduce fossil fuel demands by 25%, then just install another 250K kilowatt hours of solar/wind energy elsewhere so in the grand scheme of things we not only stop the growth of fossil fuel energy but also reduce it 25%. Fact is, most businesses do not require the on demand energy of a steel mill or heavy duty mfg. facility. Lighting and common AC equipment exists in every business, residential, and government facility across the US...

 

In CA, the average cost of installed watt of solar is $5.35 per watt. A 6000 watt solar system should cost about $32,000. If the homeowner saves $2500 per year in energy costs, and can get another $2500 per year selling surplus solar to the grid, this is a $5000 savings per month, multiplied by the life expectancy of 20 years equals $100,000 savings...

 

But what are you going to do with only 6000 watts? Maybe if the home was designed from the start to employ passive solar, wood or flex fuel heat, AC? forget it, unless one likes swamp coolers. There are many energy efficient techniques, but most should be designed in from the beginning. 6000 watts at low amps isn't sufficient to meet most families expectations. I am all for building 'green'. But solar panels on older homes are not a good candidate for energy or money saving, IMO.

 

Reference; http://solarexpert.com/2013/11/07/how-many-solar-panels-are-needed-for-a-2000-square-foot-home/

Also, don't know in other areas, but in my area if the homeowner plans to sell electricity back to the grid, if a person has a 2000 sq. foot home, the power company won't allow the homeowner to install 20,000 watts of solar...they don't want every homeowner becoming a power generation company...

 

That figure can't be true. The percentage may be factual but it has to be based on cell counts, not mass. When people munch on turkey drumsticks, they're not munching on something that is 90% bacteria.

 

Doesn't cell count equal mass?

 

Have you read about the plan by Japanese engineers to produce up to half of the electricity needs of Europe through solar powered desalination technology done in North Africa?

It is called the Sahara Solar Breeder project.

 

Up here in Nova Scotia, Canada the local electricity company offers people such a low price for windmill generated power that it isn't worth it for those who already have one to even turn them on!

Standard wisdom is that five to ten home owners need to get together and hook up to the guy with the windmill..... in order for him to be able to make a few bucks off the device!

 

In many parts of the US, the solar economy is already starting it's collapse. And it is looking more and more like a bubble inside of another bubble.

Many states like California and Nevada are already starting to either refuse accepting new solar production on their grids, or placing huge fees on those who want to sell power to the grid. In addition to the low rates they actually pay for it.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85711127/

Most people with solar systems use the utility as a giant battery. They produce power steady at all times, selling it to the company any excess at the time. Then when their demand goes up, they buy what they need back.

The problem with something like a windmill supporting several houses is that it has little buffer for peak useage. Everybody get home at 6PM and turn on the AC, start a load of laundry and cook dinner, brownouts will likely happen. That is why so much research and development lately has been going into home battery systems. To reduce the amount of power that may need to be purchased form the grid during peak times.

But currently, even in California it is estimated to take 25-40 years to pay back the cost of such a system. That is a rediculously low ROI. And many are predicting when the current solar bubble finally bursts, the leftovers will be a steal to pick up.

 

Have you read about this company?

http://www.solarroadways.com/

 

Apparently not. The percentage of muscle cells is quite low, but they rack up size and weight.

 

Computers will not develop consciousness, based on my assessment of esoteric information offered by a gifted meditator.

Consciousness is a cosmic development that has a unique origin, structure, and continuity.

The origin involves energetic effects of vibration, frequencies, harmonics, light, colors, and sounds.

Differences in frequencies facilitate separation into distinct units which may be thought of as particulates. Light carries information about the history of their formation from the very beginning and preserves memory of the source.

The particulates have the shape of a pyramid. They orient themselves in relation to each other according to polarities, with a tendency similar to the way magnets react to each other. Thus order forms from chaos, and order settles out as patterns formed by way of least resistance. All units contain the memory of their interactions with other units.

Pyramids have a circulating spherical energy in the major available space, while spiraling energy moves up through the peak. A trinity is formed by combining one pyramid with an inverted one to form a tetrahedron. Voids between the two serve as channels for the flow of information so that all tetrahedrons know what all others have experienced and are experiencing. The inverted pyramid represents the source, while the other is the derived unit. Thus it is a trinity of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. The latter is the dynamics through the channels.

Just as the genesis of additional life is from existing life and not from inanimate matter, so too must genesis of additional consciousness come from existing consciousness, IMO. Computers do not have any of the structures of original consciousness. They rely on inanimate matter and associated energy manipulation for memory and processing. Their advancement is just an increasingly sophisticated and powerful mimicking of the real thing (with the potential to become a menacing malignancy). Quantum computers appear to be invading higher domains (the multiverse), and if they are incorporating the trinity structure, then they already have consciousness. That is entirely doubtful at this point.

 

Skipping the pyramid stuff

The only real problem is that brains have FAR more computing power than modern computers.

There is NO evidence that some magical impetus that is required.

Humans don't come with unseen operators tucked away in their bodies somewhere.

 

You talk about all these energies but you do not define exactly what?

This is more New Age Ideology you are posting than Quantum Mechanics.

AboveAlpha

 

Unanimous agreement, yet almost no clue how the brain produces consciousness.

I'm not a scientist of any sort, but this is a favorite topic of conversation between myself and my pure math/computer scientist son. His contention is that we will be able to duplicate the human brain in a computer and produce consciousness. I say "impossible". Don't know how it's going to play out, but I still say it's impossible. Anyway, we're not even close to knowing how to duplicate (or replicate or reproduce) consciousness, and we have no idea what it is even about. I wouldn't rule out something external to the brain quite yet. And I do not see how that implies a supreme creator any more than a natural process that we haven't discovered yet.

 

You're right. The unseen operator is outside the body. The body is the avatar; the one making the choices is the individual consciousness, and the larger consciousness system in response is manipulating the physical environment, a virtual reality, according to the fixed rule set. But this is all hokus pokus to scientific materialists and is more at home in the religious/philosophy thread.