PA official: 2 state solution just a step towards destroying Israel

Why yes, its called history. The fact that the palestinian population has increased since 1948 is a simple function of reproduction and displacement.

 

I am well aware of the history of the region.

Of course it doesn't make Israel "right" to justify whatever they do by claiming biblical ownership.
I happen to be a strong supporter of the nation of Israel, but I am not a supporter of its current government and many of its policies.

I also believe as Abba Eban did that the palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss and opportunity.

 

No my friend. Immigration of Arabs into West bank did it. Immigration of Arabs into West bank did it.Immigration of Arabs into West bank did it.

Palestinians find it advantageous to live around Jews and get some of that mojo, basking in their glory

 

there was very little Arab immigration to the West Bank.

 

It was called Syria-Palestine because Palestine was a province of Syria by the time of Herodotus circa 500 BC.

 

Because I'm fairly new to this forum I'm not sure about the depth of your expertise but I'll try and break it down for you. First of all, there are a lot of stupid things said by Palestinian figures, but if you even spent a minute researching past and present Israeli politicians you'd find so many idiotic and at times downright scary quotes (such as Ayelet Shaked calling for the execution of all Palestinian mothers). But maybe you don't bring this up because you secretly, or even openly agree with them.

But it's good to see that you've offered a solution (the deportation of all arabs from not only Israel, but the West Bank and Gaza!). I have to be honest who can take you seriously when you say such an impractical thing. Now I don't know if you're a Christian but let me tell you that I grew up in a Palestinian-Christian household here in Jerusalem, and the continual lies connecting the Palestinian struggle to Pan-Islamism is laughable. In fact the founder of the PFLP was a Christian and a family friend of ours, George Habash. Even Hamas recognise that Christian figures will be a key part of a future Palestinian state (Even though I have my doubts on a 2 state solution).

I appreciate that you are interested in these issues but I beg of you to just open up a bit more and not go off the same Israeli far-right talking points that have gotten us to the mess we are in now.

 

That's not true.. The West Bank was full of Arabs before 1967. There is no advantage to having their ancient olive trees destroyed or their homes and farms taken from them.

 

no, they changed the name to wipe the history of the Jews from the land.

it was called the Roman Province of Judaea, and the Hasmonean Kingdom of Judah before that.

 

A two state solution is the only intelligent solution to this problem. The problem are factions which do not want a two state solution. Israel should just draw up the lines, hand the document to the PA, and tell them if they clean up their acts, Israel will have diplomatic relations with them. If they can do nothing but export terror into Israel, Israel will treat them like an invading nation and kill out the problem. You know, solve it as it would have been solved earlier in our history as a species. That is, give them the land, and then leave it up to the Palestinians to act civilized. If not, then they get destroyed if they support attacks on Israel. This is reasonable and rational. Course' Net in Yahoo would have to go. And get the right people into office to actually solve it with a two state solution.

The two state solution should have been done long ago. And if Israel has to draw up the borders, so be it. Afterall, they are being generous to give this group of prior vagabonds a piece of land to begin with. The Palestinians should have the good sense and common decency to be grateful, and then concern themselves with creating their own 21st nation next to the only 21st century nation in that neck of the woods. Invite them to join the 21st century.

 

some Christians on this bored today were talking about attacking all Muslims, there will always be some that want to war with others.... always has been sadly probably always will be

 

You can whitewash the arab muslims all you want, but if you believe that hamas - who has ethnically cleansed almost all of the christians out of gaza - have any desire to include them in a 23rd arab muslim state, you're smoking way too much hashish. Keep in mind how many christians hamas and the PFLP have murdered through attacks and suicide bombings.

As for the idiotic comments by israelis, sure they've made some - but Israel being a democracy is able to manage the lunatics. <Mod Edit>

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This must be a joke as no one can even remotely take it seriously...

 

You speak of fantasy, where the day/hour/minute the Israelis exit the west bank and declare that there is an arab state, the arab muslims will do EXACTLY what they did when the Israelis left Lebanon in 2000, and Gaza in 2008 - start using the territory as a launching pad for attacks/rocket fire. Using military vernacular, it would be tantamount to drawing the frontlines closer to the major Israeli population centers.

Were the Israelis to do what you suggest, the world media, EU, far left, and the arab muslims would scream if the Israelis responded to the inevitable, large-scale terrorism with massive force as you mention - just as they have EVERY other time Israel has defended itself. Ask yourself if over your lifetime, has Israel ever NOT been criticised for using ANY methods to defend itself, ever?

Since the arab muslims will never tolerate the sovereign rights of others in the mideast - and based upon what we are seeing in Europe, eventually no where on earth - the proper, rational step would be to deport all of the arab muslims (other than the beduins and druze) to where they were supposed to live as per the original mandate; Jordan. The west bank and gaza will become Israel, and the arab muslims will be under the management of their fellow arabs - just what they want.

This will also serve as a line in the sand to the aggressive arab muslims/pro-arab muslim terror apologists around the world that the West and non-aligned countries like India are not going to yield or bow down to the arab muslim terrorists, no matter how hard they push using violence and terrorism.

 

haha!!!

you're re-writing the Mandate for Palestine, which was always supposed to have a sizeable Muslim minority, even within a Jewish state.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)

"The preamble of the mandate document declared:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people..."

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"Under the terms of the McMahon-Hussein correspondence and Sykes-Picot agreements, Transjordan was to be part of an Arab state or confederation of Arab states. The proposed Arab state and Jewish national home called for separate boundaries and administrative regimes in the sub-districts of historical Palestine (west of the Jordan River) and Transjordan (east of the Jordan River). "

 

the Mandate also promised full and complete respect and protection for non-Jewish civil and religious rights in Palestine.

 

Those israeli Palestinians aren't living in occupied territory. Going to answer my question?

 

An independent state has no duty to guarantee another state's "security".

 

This is probably the most astonishing aspect of all the middle eastern matter: without the creation of the State of Israel no Arab power would have endorsed and sustained the idea of the creation of an independent State of Palestine.

Arab powers, once UK left the Middle East, would have conquered the Land of Canaan making Palestine a province [entire or divided] subjugated by their domains.

Only the opportunity to use Palestine as an anti-Israel counterweight has made it "interesting" for Arab capitals to support Palestinians to become independent.

This should be kept in the right consideration ...

 

What you call manipulation most people call education, and we can thank the internet and the likes of Ilan Pappe and Noam Chomsky for educating us about the horrors which the odious cabal running Israel continues to subject Arabs to, and with the collusion and tacit approval of the United States of America.

 

Ha ha ha, glad you admit these Palestinians who are lucky enough to live in Israel are happy

 

No but you just invented fiction. Oh do provide the document that says the above. Stating your subjective opinions of what you wanted life to be as fact doesn't make it so.

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Well golly gee then explain to me how they were cleansed if they are still their and multiplying over 100 times the rate of Israelis. Zip zap zow. Some concepts just fly over peoples' heads?

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Name calling with unsubstantiated allegations followed by Insulting holocaust survivors using the pretext of criticizing Israel for existing as your platform.


Can you explain to me how the Neo Nazi skin head movement supports Syrian and other Muslim refugees and immigrants in Germany, "Grau" ?

Can you explain to me how the Neo Nazi skin head movement supports Palestinians or any other Muslims anywhere?

 

Yes. The terrorism and the knifings, if only Israelis stopped defending themselves against both and let themselves die, this would suceed in establishing Eretz Israel in a matter of weeks even though its existed since 1948.

Got it, let people kill them off, and the state they have since 1948 will come into existence.

Thanks for that comment. It was very insightful.

 

Zionism is not and has never been a concept of claiming Biblical ownership. Those Zionists who refer to Biblical ownership are in fact a minority and not the majority of Zionists let alone Israeli Jews.

The notion of returning to Israel in Zionism recognizes Christian and Arab legal rights to land ownership s in the state of Israel. The concept is of a state protecting Jews not claiming Biblical ownership. That is a false and tiresome myth.

It is in fact Sharia law advanced in the Charters of the PA and Hamas and all Arab League nations that defines land ownership as only being allowed by Muslims. Islam not Judaism promotes that discriminatory concept to this very day in Muslim states.

In Israel the fact is Christians and Muslims own land while in Muslim countries Jews and Christians can not own land and are defined as Dhimmi-legal inferiors not capable of having the right to own land and can only rent it.

The PA and Hamas do not and have never recognized any Christian's or Jew's right to own land. This is why for example the PA rejects any Christian land titles in East Jerusalem while Israel pays rent to Christian churches for the land it built the Knesset and other government buildings on.

The Muslim representatives in Jerusalem who were supposed to work with Jewish and Christian leaders on allowing equal access for all three religious groups to various historic sites does nto recognize any Christian or Jewish access only Muslim access.

Zionism defines the state as an institution to protect Jews not prevent Muslims and Christians from owning land within Israel if they are citizens.

The Jews who settled on the West Bank entered land that has never been part of a sovereign nation. Palestinians want unilateral control of all the land of the West Bank, all of it. They were given 90% of Palestine already in the Palestinian State of Jordan and offered automatic citizenship in Jordan and Jordan annexed the West Bank but Arafat tried to murder King Hussein and take over Jordan. Jordan was created as a Jew free state and its citizenship requirements still deny Jews citizenship.

Go on find one Muslim country in the ME that allows a non Muslim to own land. Why is it Muslims own land in Israel but not vice versa?

That is the pith and substance of this b.s. tit for tat insipid denial that fuels this debate.

There is a complete and utter denial that Muslims have states that through their lack of separation of religion from state impose apartheid (dhimmitude) and legal discrimination against non Muslims through the laws of the Koran-and you want to create some myth the Old Testament does this?

Go on show me in the Old Testament, the 10 Commandments, the Talmud, where it says only Jews can own land as is the case in Sharia law with Muslims.

It does not.

Zionism was created by atheists who created a new identity for Jews which said we are a national collective not just a religious group of followers.

Most Israelis do not even practice traditional Judaism-so what the hell are you referring to?

Zionism has nothing to do with the friggin Bible. Its an existential response to discrimination and continuous attacks and genocide from the past Christian nations of Europ and today's Muslim Middle East nations, most puppet creations of the West and/or puppets of China and Russia-corput regimes who wage war on their own people. Regimes that can not stop Musllims from killing one another.

Go on look at the West Bank. The myth is the Jewish settlers have stolen it. Oh bull sheeyit. The majority of the land is occupied by so called Palestinians. Go look who they are. Very few of the Palestinians on the West Bank are even descended from Palestinian Muslims of the past-they are the offspring of Muslims who moved to Palestinian to displace actual Palestinian Muslims and take over land. The land was owned by cronies of the Sultan of Oman. The true Palestinian Muslims never owned any land. They were itinerants allowed to squat on the land in return for fighting in the Ottoman Empire armies or by paying a fee to these absent landlowners.

Churchill illegally seized 90% of the land and turned it into a puppet Kingdom along with Iraq placing Feisal's two sons as Kings in these two artificially created land as payback for Feisal ripping up an agreement to have a Muslim and Jewish kingdom live side by side.

The French and British sabotaged this agreement to France could create colonies in Lebanon and Syria, and the UK in Iraq, Jordan, Iran and Saudi Arabia. It was about oil and placating thousands of Arab warlords who helped Britain defeat the Ottoman Empire in WW!.

The Muslims who flooded Palestine in the 20's came because of an elaborate British policy to flood the area with Muslims to prevent a Jewish state as Churchill fully admits in his memoirs.

Those Muslims who flooded Palestine were just as much foreigners as the Jews who came from Europe or Muslim countries to Palestine.

In this bullcrap revisionist myth a Muslim who came to Palestine displacing Palestinian Muslims is a Palestinian but if a Jew came to Palestine they were an invader.

Its crap but the lie has been repeated so many times even people like you buy into it subconsciously and buy into this Bible crappola about Zionism.

Zionism rejected mainstream Jewish religion as defeatist and a danger to the survival of Jews. Its defining Israel as the homeland is not Biblical, its based on going back to the native country of Jews precisely so we would not be accused of going to a land we had no ties to. This is why Jews did not as Churchill suggest go to Uganda. It was about returning to whence we came not going to a land we had no ties to.

It is in fact only a minority of Jewish Zionists who use the Bible and argue all of Judea and Somaria belong to the Jews. Mainstream Zionism does not. In fact the true Biblical Zionists are either them, which represent 150,000 Jews on the West Bank and group of Russian Jews or Christian Zionists. Christian Zionists have far different beliefs than the Jewish ones.

For Christians the state of Israel is created as a precondition for the return of Jesus. In Judaism if we followed it in fact, Biblical Judaism if it exists, says the Messiah must return from israel is created which is why the 300,,000 Hasidic Jews on the West Bank who have lived there since Biblical days do not recognize the state of Israel. The PA and Hamas have stated in their Sharia law
which will consist of Gaza, Israel the West Bank and Jordan it will be a sharia law state and Abbas has actually stated he does not want these Jews in his state.

Let's top b,s,ng the issue. The majority of Palestinians today on the West Bank are children of Muslims who displaced actual Palestiinian Muslims and this is why Arafat blew up the Land Titles office on the West Bank. He had to prevent the truth from coming out and that was that most Palestinians had no legal title to land and had stolen the land from other Palestinians and were in fac selling the land over and over to numerous other Palestinians at the same time.

Palestinians have been stealing and illegally selling land to each other long before Zionists showed up.

The Muslim world of the ME has deliberately used anti Zionism as a panacea to hide its own injustices committed by it to its own people. More Muslims have stolen land from each other and killed each other than any so called Zionist Jew or Christian.

Christians and Jews have equal historical roots in the ME as Muslims and that is all Zionism said.

Go on go read the Zionist chronicles and show where it uses Bible quotes.

 

One small point among many; you asked which Muslim country allows non-Muslims or foreigners to own land. Jordan does, among others. Now, in view of your dissembling on this subject why should we believe anything else you say in defence of Israel? It took me all of 10 seconds to find this: http://www.tamimi.com/en/magazine/l.../the-foreign-ownership-of-land-in-jordan.html
In addition Qatar, Dubai and the UAE all permit land ownership by foreigners. It may be conditional and with restrictions, but your assertion that no ME Muslim nations allow foreign ownership of land is demonstrably false.