Stalin's tomb in red flowers

citing some fiction books CIA hack isn't knowing history either.

did you talk to all of them back then, or only the selected ones to be shown by Western media?

of the above mentioned only the Kulacks and Trotskists were persecuted, while the rest was doing fine.

 

Not quite correct. Crimean tatars were also persecuted at the end of the war. Their deportation is a known historical fact. There were even couple military tatar pilots, one of whom was twice hero of USSR and who was forbidden to live in Crimea! So I would say it was not even a persecution, but rather a genocide.

 

AA, I think compared to modern Russia, USSR was really a fair state. Now all those who govern the country live in luxury and are not ashamed to expose it to everyone, which in fact annoys many. At USSR times there was nothing like that. I do not know for sure, but I have also impression that at 1950s there was much less corruption in the USSR than in Russia now.

 

Actually it was just the other way round : authorities preferred to exile all than to destroy the majority of the male population according to wartime laws - as it is known,there was a mass collaboration in Crimea.The death of the majority of men would be the death of all the people ,ie the genocide and this way of execution was rejected,although formally just this way was in accordance with the law.

 

Well the 1950's were before my time but I do know the levels of corruption and how if you were a High Ranking Member of the Communist Party back in the 1980's for you life in the CCCP was like a BOWL OF CHERRIES!!

The guy's I worked with in 1984 and 1985 in Moscow and in Leningrad who were all GRU and a few KGB told me back then that the ONLY REASON they were allowed to get in all the High Ranking Commie Clubs in Moscow and Leningrad and a few other locations in the CCCP was because they were ASSIGNED to work with ME....an AMERICAN....and prior to being given that assignment they said they were NEVER allowed in all those CLUBS...especially the big one on the NEVA RIVER....as that Commie Club back in 1984 was essentially a BAR, BROTHEL, RESTAURANT and HOTEL.

Back in 1984-85 there was almost ZERO Political or Economic activity of any kind going on between the CCCP and the U.S.

Pan Am and Aeroflot began service between their countries in 1968, but Pan Am dropped Moscow in 1978, asserting that the route was unprofitable. It said one of the reasons was that Aeroflot was able to work through the state tourist agency to press travel services to use Aeroflot for transporting tourist groups, the largest group of Westerners to visit the Soviet Union.

President Carter phased out Aeroflot flights in 1979 as part of Sanctions.

Polish Commercial Flights were the method of getting both American's and Soviet's to and flow each perspective nation between those years.

On RARE occasion an Aeroflot Aircraft would fly into Kennedy to allow the Soviet's to get to the U.N.....and I felt REALLY BAD for the small number of Russian Military guy's who had to wait with the aircraft while members of the Soviet Union's Embassy would get on or off or a person like me would get on and they would be outside the aircraft smoking cigarettes and then get SCREAMED AT by the U.S. Security and Fire Prevention people as those damn Aeroflot passenger aircraft used to LEAK JET FUEL like you would not believe!!!

Anyways....the Soviet Military guy's I would see LONGINGLY looking at the New York City skyline as New York City has the largest and most numerous numbers of extremely tall buildings and density per square mile in the world.

It for them I imagine was like being a KID who is just a short distance away from a CANDY STORE that had a big sign on it saying...EVERYTHING IS FREE!! LOL!!!

They didn't get to go into the city and had to stay with the aircraft the whole time!!

I got to know a few of them as unlike their Ambassadors and Embassy Staff who would REFUSE to talk to these poor guy's....I on the other hand who basically had a few of these guy's next to me as my security detail....I would talk to them in both English and Russian although my Russian now is not what it used to be.

They were at first afraid to talk to me until I began to ask them questions such as..."Do you guy's always have to stay with the plane?"

They said..."Yes."....and would not say anything else as they were both afraid that if they were seen talking to an American that it might get them into trouble in a 1000 different ways...and they were afraid of me a little bit.

Then I would ask them questions like...."Are you married? Do you have a girlfriend? Do you have kid's?"....and I don't care what kind of person from any country you ask those questions to....EVERYONE will immediately pull out PICTURES!! LOL!!

Anyways....it was a good ice breaker and even when I began to meet my COUNTERPARTS in the CCCP they also would be STIFF LIPPED and it would take me awhile to break the ice with them as well as these people were given a 2 MONTH TRAINING SESSION on how the AMERICAN they would be working with would use all sorts of devious and insidious methods of EXTRACTING INFORMATION FROM THEM.....so as they were trained that I was the BOOGIE MAN.....they were frightened I might get them to talk about things they were not supposed to talk about but after awhile I realized they were more afraid of their SUPERIORS than they were afraid of me!!

I explained to them that if we were going to be working together to accomplish developing a method of back channel communication as this JOB was given to be after the whole Yuri Andropov/Able Archer 83 DEBACLE....that we needed to get to know one another because all this mistrust would result in our failing to develop what REALLY needed to be developed!!!

I can say this....the RUSSIAN PEOPLE were MISERABLE under COMMUNISM but they would never admit it.

They were for a time VERY HOPEFUL when Russia became a democracy.

But they are back to being MISERABLE....and at least now some openly admit it.

AA

 

There were the High Ranking Communist Party Elite....then there was everyone else!!

You cannot call the average Soviet Citizen MIDDLE CLASS.....not by U.S. Standards.

AA

 

OH...and you and I have already discussed the whole....COFFEE AND BREAD LINE issue.

Many pictures were posted on that past threads discussion showing these lines.

Bread line's were common during WWII......but there were Bread Lines AGAIN....when the Soviet Union began to go BANKRUPT as it attempted to keep up with U.S. Military spending.

In fact at the end of Brezhnev's regime and during all following Soviet Leaders after Brezhnev from Yuri Andropov right up to GORBY'S turn in power....the Soviet Communist Party made the mistake of attempting to match U.S. Military Spending and Weapons System Deployment which was not only a huge mistake which bankrupted the Soviet Union....it also placed enormous hardships upon the people of the Soviet Union.

Reagan KNEW that even though the Soviet Communist Party Leadership KNEW that the Soviet Union was nowhere near being capable of matching U.S. Military Defense Spending and Weapons System Deployment that the Soviet's would STILL....even KNOWING....that they could not keep up....WOULD ATTEMPT TO DO SO ANYWAYS!

This ATTEMPT and this ATTITUDE that whatever the American's could do....the SOVIET'S could also do....is what caused the COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION.

After the COMPLETE DEBACLE that was Yuri Andropov's sick, dying and delusional assessment that the United States would attempt a NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE upon the Soviet Union during the U.S./NATO WAR GAMES known as ABLE ARCHER 83.....which resulted in ME being sent to Moscow and Leningrad in 1984-1985....U.S. President Ronald Reagan discussed with his National Security Team and also Reagan wrote in his memoirs....

....."I never knew just how serious that Yuri Andropov and his supporters in the KGB and GRU took the announced over a year in advance planned NATO War Games known as Able Archer 83. I and others in the U.S. also had NO IDEA to the extent how fearful those in the Soviet Military and Leadership were about the U.S. Military buildup and especially the U.S. Deployment of the Pershing II Intermediate Range Tactical Nuclear Missiles in West Germany and our deployment of over 500 Nuclear Cruise Missiles throughout Europe."

Reagan continued to write that...."I and other's in the U.S. were of the mindset that the Soviet's thought like us....that a Nuclear First Strike would be INSANE and we at that time did not understand that the Soviet's thought that the U.S., NATO and myself personally were just waiting for an excuse to launch a 1st Strike. When in reality nothing could be further from the truth as when we found out that the Soviet's ACTUALLY THOUGHT WE WOULD LAUNCH A FIRST STRIKE.....this not only surprised the HELL out of me and other's in the U.S.....it also showed me that if I did not take steps immediately to inform the Soviet's that the United States in no way had any intention of EVER launching a 1st Strike.....that any mistake on either side could quickly spiral out of control."

Reagan also said...."The Soviet Leadership and Military was especially afraid of the Pershing II Tactical Nuclear Missiles as the Pershing II's that were based in West Germany were so fast and so accurate as well as being so close to Moscow.....and as each carried a 750 Kiloton Warhead that as a Solid Fuel Missile could be launched with a moments notice and being accurate in the extreme and so fast....the Pershing II's could reach Moscow and various other Targets and DECAPITATE SOVIET COMMAND AND CONTROL....within a FEW MINUTES.....which was FASTER THAN THE SOVIET'S COULD GET THEIR...NUCLEAR FOOTBALL....AND CODES"....made available for the Soviet Leadership to launch a counter strike."

Thus Reagan went to Moscow and met with Gorby and a deal was made and all TACTICAL NUCLEAR MISSILES were eliminated.

AA

 

wow, it'a THAT bad in Russia?

It was flat out proven and blatantly obvious that the USSR was super corrupt. I never expected a Russian to say that

 

Vis is a Good Guy and he is not some Putin Cheerleader as he will discuss realities in a scientific manner.

He is basically saying that Putin's Russia is more corrupt than 1950's USSR.

And you know what?

I think I agree with him.

AA

 

You from the US according to photos better me know life in the USSR? I don't think so. Life in the USSR began to worsen, approximately since 1986 as I spoke. I was one of first Soviet ''businessmen'' - Fartsovka... (... after, in difference from crime people which plundered the country, taking out any goods from the country and not paying taxes, I on the contrary - bring goods into the country, filled shelves of shops...) When I was 16 years old, I bought different western goods in Moscow and sold in other city in the market, in the day off (my elder brother was in police protection ''OMON'' in this market therefore none of crime person touched me...) Anyway, the Soviet people wanted fashionable the goods, western from light industry. (clothes, footwear, perfumery etc. - everything that ''shines'') - we the first businessmen sold all this in the market or in other places.

At this time, grocery stores have been filled still with the Soviet goods. (bread, sausage, grain, etc.) I studied at institute in the afternoon... (I have the higher incomplete education) and some short time, I worked at plant in the evening. At institute there was a free food 3 times a day. At plant, in a lunch break, we could eat well in cafeteria ... for one ruble (meat soup, macaroni with cutlets or potato with a garnish, pies etc.) The salary was 220 rubles a month.
As I remember, bread, milk, sausages etc. in shop cost little, and there were no problems to buy it.

My many classmates were helped by parents, I have refused the help of parents as I for two days off - Saturday, Sunday, had money from sale of goods, the profit about 1000 rubles or is more.

The Soviet grocery stores, even in the far province - in villages (there lived my grandmother) were full fish canned food, cookies, halvah, wafers,
cocoa, Georgian tea, weighed out candies, sugar, jam, salty marinated fish and тд. I remember it. Only there seldom sold sausages, meat, ice cream and some other goods. For these goods people go to the city and bought a large number (in each house, there was a big storage - the freezer...)

People in the village, almost each family of 90% had one or two cows, several sheep, two - three pigs, it is a lot of hens, geese, there were garden for vegetables and a land approximately half
hectare there grew up potato. Storage for potato, usually in the house, under a floor. Under the house in the cellar - There held about about 1 - 3 tons of potato ... (Now the majority of villages almost empty, people have gone to the cities...)

What hunger you talking about? My grandfather and grandmother worked in the village, they got paid about 400 rubles a month and they had a full stock of the own home made products! It was Brezhnev and Yuri Andropov time.(of course, it was necessary to work hard)
cellar for storage of vegetables


cellar - the refrigerator for storage of meat and other products. In the winter this hole is filled with snow or ice. And it works 3 months in hot summer as the big refrigerator. Economically, because the electricity isn't necessary.

ps: Why the USSR has collapsed, I wrote my opinion earlier... now to write laziness.

 

You are talking about Moscow....the Soviet Union and the people living in it did not have the food and goods that were readily available on the shelves of stores in Moscow.

Back in the 1980's you could trade a few pairs of Levi's or a Walkman for a TRABANT....for those who do not know a very poorly made East German Car.

When I was in East Germany as part of a Cultural Exchange....I got to know a few members of the East German Stasi fairly well and one guy asked me to get an AM/FM Car Stereo with a Cassette Player for his kid.

I asked him if he wanted the CD Player instead of the cassette player and he said...NO! We can't get CD's here yet.

Point is...depending upon WHERE you were in either the Soviet Union or even Eastern Europe back then determined the amount and quality of goods you could get off store shelves.

In Georgia or Kazakhstan goods were very scarce.

Moscow always had goods and food except for WWII.

AA

 

Mass collaboration of Tatars with fascists? You mean 200000 people that were sent to Asia and Siberia were collaborating with Nazis? Common... Actually, in 1989 Russian Supreme Council of USSR recognized that this deportation was a crime.

 

I don't understand why some of these members continue to say that Stalin did not forcibly relocate millions of people all over the Northern Soviet Union and into Siberia when the Russian's themselves have discussed what a major crime it was for Stalin to do this??

And WHY anyone in Russia would be advocating Stalin's Methods is BEYOND ME!!

AA

 

I have in detail written about life in the province(village) which it is far from Moscow. Read once again my post!
PS. life in the USSR - the Soviet fourth-grader Katya in 1987.
http://www.fresher.ru/2012/06/13/zhizn-devochki-v-sssr/#more-41709


Moscow life of 1960
www.fresher.ru/2012/07/10/moskovskaya-zhizn-1960-goda-v-larkax-i-vitrinax/#more-42562

This author has collected a photo from different years(including reorganization and after war...) and called - the Soviet photos about life in the conditions of deficiency. It is called promotion.
http://www.fresher.ru/page/2/?s=ссср

New York of the 80th years
http://www.fresher.ru/2012/06/07/nyu-jork-80-x-godov/#more-39818

 

First of all anything that was an article or a documentary prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union had to first be approved by the Soviet Propaganda Ministry so we can't trust any articles or documentaries prior to the collapse.

Secondly the pictures you post do not exactly benefit anything that would have anyone believe that the CCCP was anything but an extremely backward and controlled society.

AA

 

I have written to you really what I saw. Not someone's article or documentary. It is approved by me.

 

For example,here is a document that speak to the fact of the total desertion of Tatars:

Facts are stubborn things and they do not care what do anti-commies recognize and claim.

I don't understand why some members stubbornly refuse to talk about the 400,000 of Japanese-Americans who was thrown into concentration camps by Roosevelt.

 

Aha, and how many Russians have joined Nazis? Only one army of Vlasov contained more than 100000 people. Maybe then all Russians should have been sent to Siberia and Asia? The fact is that the deportation of Tatars was recognized a crime by the Supreme Court and Council of the USSR.
We should not kick ball back and say to Americans- you are fools yourself- you had a lot of concentration camps in your country. We better mind our own business, admit our faults so not to repeat it in future. In this sense, Germany, and especially Konrad Adenauer who publically repented for what has done Nazi Germany in the WW2 deserves great respect. And it was not easy for Germany to repent.

 

And how many Russians were called up in army during the war,more than 20 million? !00 thousand traitors of 20 million - is this something that is comparable with 20 thousand deserters of 20 thousand?

Why should not we if they blame us in what they did themselves but in a worst way? Concentration camps and exile are not the same things,feel the difference.

 

All I am saying is that what your or Russian's consider to be Middle Class is not anywhere near what American's consider to be Middle Class.

A typical Middle Class American Family consists of a Mother and Father who both have carrier JOBS....both have College Degrees....and they have on average 2.5 Children that they live with in their own Home in the suburbs or rural areas as more American's live in rural areas than live in Cities.

This family has a total of at MINIMUM 3 cars and 1 Pickup Truck or SUV....1 car for Dad....1 car for Mom....1 car for the oldest kid....and usually one pickup, SUV or Sports Car.

They will live in a 3 to 4 bedroom home with a 2 car garage and usually will own a pool....spend money on having a nice landscaped yard and garden....and will have appox. 4 to 5 weeks vacation a year.

They will have anywhere between $150,000 to $1 Million in the bank and invested in stocks and bonds.

The Father will make between $60,000 to $250,000 a year and the Mother will make between $45,000 to $200,000 a year.

They will have a College Fund for at least 2 kids.

And they all will be involved in various Charitable activities as well as the kids will be involved in School Sports.

The Home will have Wireless Internet and Cable TV along with at least 3 Widescreen TV's....as well as DVR's.

They will have a nice outdoor deck or patio set up for Grilling and Company.

That is an AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN FAMILY.

Now some might have more...some might have less...but that is the typical average.

AA

- - - Updated - - -

That was a big mistake on our part and we admit this and have issued an APOLOGY to the Japanese American's who had to endure this.

However although this NEVER should have happened....we did not throw them in some GULAG and they were well taken care of.

AA