deadly force to defend helicopter pilots and drivers from laser pointers

Intentionally pointing lasers at helicopters and motor vehicles puts people at risk of crashing and being killed. This is why state laws should explicitly allow citizens to use/threaten to use deadly force in order to prevent the eminent commission of this felony. States can’t afford to have any legal fogginess surrounding the law concerning defense of others and this repulsive crime.

 

What brings this up? I've never seen it mentioned until this thread.

 

It's a serious crime and I don't mind throwing them in jail for a long time, but I can't see the immediate need to shoot someone to stop them. Just yelling at them will make them stop 99% of the time. Report it to the police and let them handle it. If you are concerned that the laser pointer is a laser sight on a pistol, then maybe you have a case for returning fire, but that could be a little shaky.

 

several years ago, some punk ass teen started pointing one of those things at an undercover cop. the cop shot the kid dead. it was ruled justifiable because there had been some shootings of people with someone with a laser sighted gun

hard lesson to learn

 

If someone is not pointing their laser at an aircraft or at a speeding motor vehicle but has threatened to do so, then you should definitely just yell at the person and threaten to call the police. If they start aiming their laser at a speeding motor vehicle or aircraft then I think that people should be legally allowed to draw their firearms and threaten force. If the laser pointers don't comply ( which is unrealistic) then you should be legally allowed to shoot them so you can prevent the reasonable possibility of a helicopter or motor vehicle crashing and causing death. We're talking about someone that is despicably endangering peoples lives. That in my eyes justifies the use/threatened use of deadly force.

 

This appears to be a growing problem in the U.S.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/news/news/other-news_files/category-statistics.php#on

 

IIRC pointing a laser at a pilot flying a jet is a crime of one sort or another. Many jurisdictions allow use of force or threat of same to effect a citizens arrest when you have seen someone commit a crime. Check your state laws

 

Another crime commited is the illegal use of radio frequencies, people do not realize that use of these frequencies is a SERIOUSLY prosecuted crime, to transmit on police or Fire or EMS, any commercial frequencies, Fake distress or mayday signals, or unlicensed use of Amateur radio.

All these carry heavy fines and jail sentences. Federal charges.

 

Endanger the persons flying and passengers of an aircraft? Yea, I don't care if you get put in the ground for that.

 

The problem is larger than most people realize, with thousands of such incidence a year. A few get caught, but attacks are difficult to pin to individuals. These attacks are taken seriously and when reported law enforcement in most cases will attempt to locate the source.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/12/us/pilots-laser-attacks/

There is a video link in the article showing how one suspect was apprehended. I am not sure how you use deadly force to stop such an attack because it would be unlikely to have an opportunity to intervene and to positively identify the culprit from the ground without air support like in the video and firing on the ground from an aircraft could be potentially dangerous to others on the ground. It was handled well in the video. I suspect most intervention would come from tips, particularly if there is a reward for such tips as indicated in the article. Those prosecuted are getting time.

 

There are some lasers with an increased range and can blind people, in some places, Teens were going to vantage points within visual range of landing aircraft on approach to runways, this being the case, it places those airplanes crew and passengers in grave danger as well as the town the plane may crash into, ie a 747 or larger plane, on approach to JFK or LGA.....

How to react to this ?
I do not know, and I will not say, it is however, a serious threat.

I do not see firing from an aircraft as an option, perhaps increased patrols around airports, and classifying this crime, in the same way as you would a Terrorist act or war against the U.S.

 

Imagine a well planed attack on a helicopter from several people with laser pointers. They can spread out from each other and hit the pilot several times. One person with a laser is dangerous, but the possibility of a large group of people with laser pointers spread out is even more of a justification to use/ threaten deadly force. CCW permit holders can foil the plan of this hypothetical group of malicious people.

 

There were some middle school kids from our church group caught pointing some cheap lasers at some aircraft not long ago.

I know if I had my own private helicopter I would not automatically spray unknown threats on the ground with with my automatic weapons---just because they pointed a laser at me.

But that's just me.

 

I never said helicopters should fire at people pointing lasers. I said that people on the ground should first threaten deadly force if possible. I don't think you realize how dangerous lasers can be to helicopters. They can temporarily cause the pilot vision impairment.

 

You are perhaps not even a teenager yet ?
It seems you do not live in the U.S. or fully understand U.S. laws governing or concerning guns, especially automatic weapons.

- - - Updated - - -

Some lasers can permanently blind people.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/fda-war...what-you-need-know-about-laser-safety-and-how

 

http://www.pattyvisioncenters.com/index.php/myth_busters/myth/can_laser_pointers_hurt_your_eyes

The chances therefore of some child actually damaging retinal cells with a typical low power laser from at least several hundred yards distance is very remote.

I am over the age 19 and own a gun--- have actually fired Class 3 weapons---and have knowledge of the 1934 Firearms Act.

Your concern is quite heartwarming.

 

I see an analogy here to shooting a BB gun at someone. If someone is riding a motorcycle, and someone else shoots them with a BB gun several times, that creates a risk of substantial harm.

Actually, ordinary lasers are not really that hazardous for high-flying aircraft because the beam gradually begins to spread out after all that distance. To the people in the aircraft, it just looks like like a very bright light source off in the distance.

 

Let's leave the discussion of lasers and permanent damage aside for a secound. Do you realize how distressing having your vision temporarily impaired while flying a helicopter can be? Can you understand why being extremely distressed while flying a helicopter can be life threatening?

 

A portable class 3B 499 mW laser can temporarily flashblind a pilot or driver, causing afterimages, within 1 mile (1.6 km) of the laser.

http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/3B/

 

Perhaps it would be a more logical endeavor to focusing efforts on modifying the windows of airplanes and helicopters to shield pilots against laser pointers.

 

A mirrored aircraft windscreen, or helicopter "bubble", would not be practical. First, there are cost and durability issues regarding the mirror coating. But more importantly, a mirrored coating would reflect ALL light going through it. If it dims a laser beam by 90%, so it can be safely viewed without glare, it also dims all other lights by 90%. This includes airport runway lights, guide beacons, warning strobes etc. These are already dim to begin with -- it would be like landing an airplane with dark sunglasses on.

However, it may be possible to put a film on aircraft windscreens which reflects laser light but transmits other light. Such a film would need to have a narrow bandpass meaning that it reflects only certain laser wavelengths. In June 2014, Airbus announced it would be testing such a film.

Since most laser incidents (as of mid-2014) involve green light at 532 nanometers, it may be adequate to protect only against this particular wavelength. The makers of the Airbus-tested film say they can reflect two or more wavelengths simultaneously.

One problem is with cost -- it may cost thousands of dollars to cover a commercial aircraft's windscreen.

Between testing and cost, it may be years before anti-laser films are in widespread use.

http://www.laserpointersafety.com/FAQ-doubters/FAQ-doubters.html#Would_it_work_to_make_the_winds

 

Yes, of course that is the real risk of harm by disorientating a pilot with a higher power laser---not with the kiddie ones on a keychain. A higher power laser can cause a temporary blinding effect---a very powerful ones can cause blinding or more likely mild vision loss if focused on the eyes. But the eyes are in constant motion---and the last thing a pilot would do is stare at the laser for more than an instant.

Depending on who the "flasher" is and their motive---really---person, place and time----would dictate the course of action against them.

I would only use deadly force possibly if I saw an ISIS-looking guy pointing a large laser at an aircraft---certainly if the laser was attached to a rifle, RGP or shoulder-launched SAM.

 

Maybe a 10-day waiting period when buying a cat toy will help!

 

I am not concerned for you at all, save your snarky comments for your fellow toddler friends you play with in the sandbox with your imitation class lll weapons.

FYI, FDA approves laser medical devices and is the real authority on lasers, and laser exposure data, I would rather defer to FDA guidelines, before accepting anything the Patty Duke vision center has to say on the topic.

 

The pilot doesn't need to stare at the laser for more than an instant. All it takes is a one second hit from a microphone sized high powered laser for an after image to appear for several seconds. There are some handheld high powered lasers that can affect a helicopter pilot from a mile away.