Liberals and Conservatives Agree: Abolish the Corporate Income Tax

You're not talking about those economists that completely failed to see the economic morass coming at the end of Bush's incompetent presidency are you? Economists have a horrible track record of predicting the future.

 

I am self employeed and for various financial and legal reasons I have incorporated my business. In practice there is no difference between the finances of my corporation and my personal finances. Being as I take care so that my expenses never exceed my income, I always have a surplus which goes into an evergrowing pot that I use to fund future projects. It is the surplus that is taxed. At tax time there is a little book keeping dance deciding which portions of that surplus is divided between the corporation and myself.

If there were no corporate income taxes I would pay no taxes.

 

I would be totally fine with a higher minimum wage, as long as it didn't cause high levels of unemployment and inflation. I am not a champion of the rich, by any definition, so I'm not proposing anything with the intent of making life easier for millionaires. In other words, I'm not opposed to it in principle, but I'm not sure it will work.

 

I agree, but what else do we have? Unfortunately, economics is not fully understood and far from hard science. The truth is that no one really understands how economies work.

 

He's not talking about any economists that I have seen so far

 

Why not? Ford did it by analogy.

 

However there are things that can be understood by studying the histories of different economic efforts. The ideas expessed in the OP are an outgrowth of Reagan nomics where the central idea is by giving the wealthiest all the breaks "all boats will be lifted". The history of the past 35 years has shown that by giving the wealthiest the most breaks has left many boats will too little water to float.

Not sure why anyone would think more of the same would make things better.

 

Frankly, I don't think anyone has a clue what to do. The more I've studied different economists over the years, the more I'm convinced that they are completely in the dark.

 

A few decades back when states like New Jersey and Oregon raised their minimum wages a few dollars above the federal minimum those businesses, like fast food places, retail outlets, and cleaning services, that depended on minimum wage workers thrived without reducing the number of employees.

 

That's because those are industries that cannot relocate, by virtue of their business model. Industries in which goods are transported over large distances would certainly relocate somewhere with a lower minimum wage.

 

That's exactly the issue.

Every time the minimum wage issue comes up...the conservatives act like that has never happened before.

It of course has and history shows all of the idiotic predictions that conservatives make about it just aren't true. In fact usually the opposite.

 

If it costs a company $10 per hour to hire assemblers for a given product in one location and $15 in an adjacent state, what do you think is going to happen? The only way I can see it working is if it is done nationally. Any service, assembly, or manufacturing job that pays its workers $10 per hour is going to move its facilities to exploit the cheap labor opportunities. If I've learned anything, it is that the employer always wins. They have all the power, and there is little that can be done to stop it. Hell, the recent job I just accepted turned out to be a total fraud (employers can lie as much as they want), and now I'm another two weeks behind in job searching.

 

Do you have any idea of the cost of relocating a business?

Obviously not.

But you do make a good argument for a national minimum wage

 

Not sure what jobs you are talking about. Most of the manfacturing jobs that went to China were well above the minimum wage.

 

Yes, obviously it is expensive, but it would behoove some employers to relocate. Others would expand distriubtion and assembly facilities with these laws in mind. I have worked at a company that outsourced a portion of its fulfillment operations to other states to take advantage of the lower wages. I know it has an impact on employment, though it varies based on the industry. Obviously, people in retail and service jobs would make out like bandits, but it would kill quite a few other jobs. Without a national minimum wage, I think unemployment would go up considerably in some areas. At the very least, companies would avoid the area.

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of our system (I obviously haven't benefitted from it), so I don't care what we do as long as people have opportunities to work and can afford to live. I don't know why we don't have some kind of civil service for people who are unemployed. Instead of people just wasting away or going on welfare, why can't we put people to work doing something useful? If I don't find a job within the next few months, I am seriously considering going on welfare and figuring out how to game the system. If I can't find a job, even entry level jobs in which I have experience, then I have no other choice.

 

I was talking about wage differences between cities or states. I think he was saying that people in retail and fastfood ended up doing fine, but it's important to point out that those are jobs that cannot be relocated to take advantage of cheap labor in different locations. In other words, you can't export the restaraunt industry.

 

The only way to bring back jobs from China is to become more competitive. I don't think that abolishing or replacing the corporate income tax is the way to go but the rates should definitely go down and many of the deductions should stop.

 

I thought you were going to lower yourself to doing manual labor...so much for that

 

They won't hire me. I've applied to scores of manual labor jobs. Jobs in which I would be doing heavy lifting all day will not even respond to my resume, depsite the fact that I have considerable experience in manual labor jobs. I've applied to call center jobs, warehouse jobs, grocery jobs, retail jobs, and tons of other entry level jobs--they will not even respond to me. It seems that no one gets a job unless they know someone. Haven't I told you this several times?

 

But you are speaking outside the scope of the current controversy. It is the workers of the service industry and their advocates that are pushing for the minimum wage increase.

Those companies that relocate for tax and other such financial motivates typically pay their employees considerably more than minimum wage.

 

Well, who cares if they are the ones pushing it? I'm talking about what the effects on others would be. Warehouse jobs, assembly jobs, what's left of manufacturing, etc. Sure, they pay more than $7.25 per hour, but few pay more than $10-11.

I've always been broke, so I don't look at things from the perspective of people who have decent jobs. This is also why I'm opposed to immigration.

 

Ever think it might be you?

If the attitude you project here is what prospective employers see...well that explains things.

Stop whining and stop expecting things. And stop playing victim

 

If your percpective on the issue holds out you should soon have all the work you can handle as I'm sure Texas will be one of tne last states to raise its minimum wage.

 

Why don't you read what I write? I DON'T GET A RESPONSE. I don't even get the opportunity to (*)(*)(*)(*) up a job oppurtunity. I'd LOVE to actually get an interview.

 

I don't know what would happen. Whatever happens, human beings will always find a way to screw each other.

Frankly, I'm past the point of believing that people on either side of the aisle have any intention of building a society that works. Somebody has to get screwed for others to live well. It's always been that way and always will be. Life eats life.

I wish I had learned that lesson sooner.