Both regions are pretty far from USA and both are next to Russia and China, respectively. Who is an aggressor in those far away regions? http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...hinese-warplanes-mounts/ar-BBtkG1B?li=BBnbfcL
- - - Updated - - - Unbelievable! Everyone's aggressive, but not the US. I think they're losing it? - - - Updated - - -
well US just life arm embargo against Vietnam, a move to counter china. http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/23/politics/obama-vietnam-trip/index.html
So....now if we sell weapons to folks that want them, we are being aggressive? Damn...apparently everyone with technology is aggressive and the better you are at it the meaner you are. If Russia or China made more stuff themselves......they would be the Great Satan.
nope just in this case the Timing, Vietnam been a commie country has worst human right than china, and has disputed with china(you know enemy of my enemy such) , even a blind man can see this is counter toward china SCS dispute. what happen if china sell weapon to NK or Iran, isn't that would consider threaten move too. there is a reason we lift embargo now rather than 10yrs from/before today.
Are you saying that China and Russia has a right to bully countries near to them, and that if the US helps these countries stand up to them, they are being aggressive?
read my thread did I said that? one google research and youll know Vietnam control more island/reef than china/phillippine combine and has huge claim just like china. we say china this or that, but really Vietnam is the same. we start the pivot asia in 2012, china follow it by assert its aggressiveness right after that, then we do this and that, then china do this and that, its just continue escalating without any break. have you notice china/Russia become more and more closer with every year. this wont stop until someone take a deep breath and backoff. we complain china but we seem always telling ourself, everything we did is reaction to china. we said we are neutral in the disputed, but why helping Vietnam least phillippine I can understand because its an ally, but Vietnam a country has large claim in SCS, has more controlled reef/island in SCS than china or phillippine, has worst human right than china.
pronin24 started the thread, and I was replying to the OP. Vietnam is has more coast along the SCS so it's reasonable they claim more islands. China's claims are just ridiculous, and anyone looking at a map would see why. These islands are a great distance from the chinese mainland.
hawian and Falkland will like your joke on "great distance", so does other island/reef control by countries who are far from it. if we base on distance along the coast then Auss, japan should have a lot more island. FYI, china has about same coast length as Vietnam in SCS. so does every countries claim in scs is ridiculous, Vietnam claim all the way to the coast of phillippine, you saying that's not ridiculous. furthermore they forcibly occupy 2 phillippine island in the 70s.
Falklands and hawaii are different.. They are inhabited. These islands in SCS are empty, aren't they? So it's not comparable. I think Vietnam's claims are somewhat ridiculous too.. But the point is that these claims will be settled in international courts, according to international rules. NOT by military force as china is doing right now. That is the point.
in ScS some are inhabited some are empty, all the claim party has some uninhabited reef/island under their control that is disputed. the Paracel is under china control since 50s, almost all are inhabited but disputed between Vietnam/Taiwan. in Sparaly islands, Vietnam/china/phillippine/malasia/brunei has reefs that are uninhabited and disputed, example 2009 phillippine intentionally ram a old ship into a coral reef to solidify its claim, and has to resupply it every month for the marine station on the ship. also there are a lot uninhabited reef/island been disputed eg senkaku islands japan, Okinotorishima, japan, rockall UK, Shag Rocks UK, Liancourt Rocks, S.korea etc etc. as for international courts for disputed claim, its a joke, if its working then we wont worry about ALL these disputed area. there is no way china/Vietnam or even phillippine will accept it, if it rule against them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
What international rules? The US invaded Serbia illegally. It bombed Belgrade for 78 days illegally. It invaded Iraq illegally. It bombed Libya illegally. Russia right now has three large books with war crimes committed by Ukraine on its own people in the Donbas. What is the International Court doing about it? Why aren't the files on M17 being presented to the International Court? Why wasn't the illegal ouster of Yanukovich presented to court, and why aren't they recognizing the referendum of Crimea since they recognized Kosovo? Anyway we can go on and on...
Whenever this country faces a challenging force, the isolations come out of the woodwork. All the way back to the Barbary Coast Pirates. Anytime we have embraced their philosophy, we have been attacked. This country has remained strong because of it's ability to project power, and protect our allies. Yet the isolationists have preached leaving our allies swinging in the wind. What you have failed to grasp is that the reason China and Russia wants the US out of their areas is because they want to steal from our allies. Make no mistake, both countries have designs on the same thing. OIL!! Take Russia for instance. I have pointed out in the past how Georgia and Ukraine is a thorn in their side. Russia ran two pipelines through those countries. One carrying natural gas to Turkey, and the other carrying heating oil to Eastern Europe. Both countries have a habit taking what they want from those pipelines in the way of rent for the property. Russia controls the Caspian and Black Sea oil and gas reserves, but that is not the extent of their desires. They also want to control the Arctic oil reserves. In 2007, the Russian Federation planted a flag on the sea bed beneath the North Pole. The problem is that these reserves are also claimed be a host of other countries such as Denmark, Canada, Norway, Sweden, and the United States. This is why a US and NATO presence in their area is a challenge to Russia. History has shown that Russia does not negotiate for control. They take what they want, and the world be damned. China is attempting to extend their borders further into the China Sea. Again this is all about oil that can be claimed by other countries. Such as Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan, and Indonesia to name a few. Though not oil related, there is also China's claim to their rogue Formosa Island (Taiwan). China has even gone so far as to build imaginary islands to extend it's boundaries. Both countries pose a threat to the national interests of the US. We can not afford to allow them a free hand.
Russia been a oil export country they don't care about oil, only oil market price. from their perspective we intrude into their sphere of influence, same for china. its more about rising power want to expand their influence, which the side affect is eroding our own influence. china building island on existing reef that's been under their control since 50s-70s. you can't build something in the ocean without a base support, in this case its the reef. and they are not the only country building/extant land via piling sands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_islands
