I want my first thread I make here to be one that is educational encouraging and intellectual as well. I want to discuss the matter of faith vs religion or vice versa as the thread title is reversed. Now I am sure all if not most of you have seen it or experienced it the religious people who spout nonsense and begin to bash you if you don't believe them who go by strict religious views and traditions and God forbid should you not follow it or even simply not agree with it. I like family guy I know many Christians who If I said this I would be under heavy fire but I do I love family guy and a quote from an episode of family by Brian when speaking to Peters very strict catholic father was ( oh how very Christian of you believe what I say or I'll hurt you) and then the catholic gramps says now you're getting it and wacks Brian with a bible and very hard as well.I couldn't help but crack up because ironically this is what others see when they think of those of us who are religious. This is the product of religion no matter what it is be that Christianity catholic Muslim you name it, I have studied other religions and their aspects and I noticed something different in the Christian faith vs other religions. Sure other religions have a God to worship to pray to to give sacrifice to serve and to faithfully obey but there was hardly ever spoken of a an actual relationship with the God they served one where they can go to their God if they are in pain or even for encouragement one where where it's as when you speak to your God it';s like a conversation between the closest of friends. The problem I see in Christianity alone is that while one can go to church can pray can know the bible like the back of their hand and they can do all kinds of good deeds they can portray the perfect Christian and I have met many like this what they lack is an actually relationship with God an actual bond a connection and thus what they have is religion. One can only know about God with religion but to actually know him personally it's just like any other relationship you have to spend time with them you have make a connection form a bond onl then can you truly get to know someone. For those who claim the title Christian I would ask yourself what your bond and your relationship with God is like and question why it is the way it is and how will it form who you are.
Faith is an element of religion, your premise is a non-sequitur false analogy. You cant categorize the whole set based merely on a single subset. The old saying: You are what you eat; means you are what you accept and live as your beliefs. .
This whole, "relationship with God," thingy just strikes me as an attempt to humanize God with warm, fuzzies attached. A sales ploy from the megachurches. I have no problem with people making their God into whatever image they want, but you should know the root of the movement, and that root lies in the world of Advertising ... not religion.
I apologize if I upset anyone or bother anyone with this thread I assure you that is not my intent, the reason why I spoke of the actual relationship with God is to give people a better understanding of what a being a Christian really is I do not wish to try to convert anyone nor do I have any intentions of going into a huge war of how my faith is right and such. As I said I have studied other religions and as I also said hardly any of them had anything to do with an actual relationship with the God they served, I did not mean to imply that a relationship with God is a warm fuzzy kind, I am not to say there are not times when he will fill you with warmth but what I am speaking of is a closeness not a feeling. Think of this if you will, many people seek to find love they imagine it to be like the fairy tales lovey dovey and when they make those vows at thier marriage they say the vows but when times get hard a lot of times these marriages are destroyed and divorce is common these days. a true relationship of any kind is truly tested to see how strong it is when the storms come and when the relationship will either bend yet stay intact or it will break. a relationship with God is much the same there will be good times and bad times there will be times when you get upset with him and times when you express your joy to him your bond with him will be tested by storms of life just as any other relationship. God is more human than most would think, he is not looking for people who play church he wants an actual relationship with us, he is seen as a far off distant being that fi you sin or make him upset you better take cover but this is not what he is after for those who follow him
As I said, you are free to view or interact with what you see as God in any way you wish. I think you should know the root of the "relationship with God" movement, however. It was born of people who were simply applying Madison Ave. advertising techniques to church attendance. Attendance was falling and mega-churches researched the cause - they found that younger people were rebelling at the notion of having to "obey" God - so they repackaged the church experience as a "relationship" rather than the traditional view. You have bought into that repackaging. That is fine. Just know what you are buying.
Sounds to me that you are already far beyond those you are describing here. If you try to help them, they will do their best to destroy you. The best you can do for them is to keep your eyes on the goal and trudge on.
This post has so many problems I don't even know where to start. "God is more human than you think??????" Tell me, what is religion, and what is faith?
I read the OP three times. I see no question. It's more like a challenge to someone more knowledgeable like yourself. He's throwing down the gauntlet for you. Will you except?
Sorry I was out helping a friend. yes God is more human than most think, see we humans have things called emotions we feel things we experience anger and when a love is strong enough and a loved one is killed he like us knows the deep pain of that. He is an emotional being and like us he knows that love hurts like us he has lost and has gained like us he knows what true sadness is. we humans have these emotions and our hearts are touched we feel compassion and we bear each others pain and burdens all of this came first from him he said when he made us that we would be made in his likeness and the emotions these feelings the way we connect to each other these all first came from him. as for second question Religion is strictly tradition following the rules being good enough praying going to church basically just playing the act and it leads to those who condemn others for falling short and killing in God's name and the usual bible thumpers who flip out when you sin. But faith at least the kind I am talking about is all about the relationship not the religion, it isn't enough to go to church to pray to know the bible like the back of your hand to do all kinds of good deeds because anyone can do this anyone can play the part this is how many get rich from religion. But when you and God make that special and deep connection everything changes you begin to form an actual relationship with him you no longer worry if you sinned expecting a lightning bolt at any moment and he looks at us and only sees royalty, for those who are told they are not good enough he says to them you are more than good enough for me for those who are called weak he says you are stronger than you know to those who carry heavy carry stress and anger confusion and fear on their backs he gives them hope and peace and slowly yet surely he changes us. There is a huge difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart. May I ask, what do you think makes a Christian? I mean if you believed in God and you were on board with it just hypothetically what do you think defines what makes a real Christian and a fake one?
I am afraid I cannot do that, I didn't become a Christian so I would walk away from those who attack me. it doesn't matter what they say or do to me Jesus wasn't willing to give up on any of us not even the most evil and darkest of hearts and neither will I.
If you look closely, you might see that I did not say to give up on them. I simply gave you the best and the only true way to help them. Just the way Jesus helped them.
You may wish to provide your proposed definitions of "faith" and "religion" first and seek a consensus on those definitions (for purposes of your discussion), before going any further.
My apologies I misunderstood you, however whether it is the best way or not I don't know but it isn't the only way. I have personally seen how far words can go we never realize exactly how far our words will go and as long as I feel lead to speak I will speak God always lets me know when to shake the dust off my feet
Oh i am aware how they are both defined in the dictionary and by people but I defined these two as I have come to know them and as I have seen them in people and I am not saying my definition is right and yours is wrong because it's not however mine also is not only because the fruit of religion and of faith of playing church and having an actual relationship with God I have seen all this.
Well, since you haven't yet provided your definitions of the words "faith" and "religion", and I haven't either, I don't know what to say. I would prefer that we exchange ideas about that to see if we can find working definitions for purposes of your discussion. That's what folks do to to help rational discourse. To that end, I will start with a discussion of the definition of the word "faith": "Faith" is a difficult word to use because it has two somewhat overlapping, but still quite different definitions. Often, which definition is being used can be gathered from context. Many times it can't. Religious definition (taken from Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)): "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I interpret this as, 'Wishful thinking or hope and the wishful thinking or hope is evidence of invisible things'. Others call it 'Belief without evidence'. I don't go that reductionist with it. Secular definition (from one of many dictionaries): A synonym for trust or confidence in something or someone, based on prior experience or evidence. In my experience, the word "faith" has baggage because of the subtly different meanings. Thus, I will use the word when discussing religion, but not use it in secular matters. For example, I would say, "I trust my car will start in the morning (because it has started every morning for the past 1 1/2 years)" and I would not say, "I have faith that my car will start in the morning". I would assume that you are talking about the religious definition. Comments?
Faith is the feeble epistemology from which the idiocy of religion grows, you can't have the former without the latter. I'm ordained and I use it to give religions a taste of their own medicine seeing their reactions as I "preach the truth that faith pales to reason and science so should be discarded" with a megaphone and big sign and go at it right when people are arriving. LOL The Universal Life Church (modesto) is so damned cool for a religious group they take everyone and keep it honest as a business model.
Strictly speaking, God is not human at all, He is God and we are not. As God Himself says in Isaiah 55: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I see so many people in places like this offering anti-scriptural and even anti-Christian doctrines (sometimes even outright heresies) as their version of Christianity. This is where "religion" comes in, which is not "tradition" as you suppose, but even if it is, Paul thinks you should pay attention to it in 2 Thessalonians 2:15: "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." To put it another way, for you to even call yourself "Christian" is to follow the traditions of the apostles. "Religion", as you say, is nothing more than sound doctrine. When I hear people denounce religion, what they are saying is "I don't need sound doctrine, I'll do this my way." While I agree with you in principle about having a relationship with God, one may say so without criticizing what your brothers and sisters call sound doctrine or best practices of the faith, or knowing the Bible, or prayer, or almsgiving. If you think anyone can do those things, and do them charitably without pride, try it. If you want to know what makes a Christian, read the entire New Testament. I have been working on it for over 20 years and I still don't have a complete answer.
aint that (my bold) the truth! meantime, it's fun to read your take on this. there's nothing at all vain about announcing publicly that you know more about the creator of the universe than 'most'.
I don't even go to church yet I have a very deep personal relationship with God. I find most of my time with him is spent while driving and there have been many times when I am talking to him that I have pulled off into a parking lot so I could focus more. Yes many people who claim to be Christians are fake but not all of us are.
