Should we make supporting and aligning with ISIS and alQaeda treason?

The word “dictator” derives from war, see Punic wars.

The presidential powers during actual declared war may include the ability to force manufacturing plants into war production, to take just about anything for war purposes, to create manufacturing plants where none exist, to ration, and to redistribute land and resources, and to control all aspects of the economy to sustain the war effort.

National War Labor Board?

The Congress may change, during the war, and with the wrong president and Supreme Court, and gridlock, you may be surprised at what measures may be taken by a president inclined to “acquire, by purchase or by the power of eminent domain, any real property or any interest therein and improve, develop, grant, sell, lease (with · or 'without the privilege of purchasing), or otherwise dispose of any such property or interest therein,” and to “test the workability of recreational facilities installed by the Government itself and operated under its complete control,” for the happiness of the National War Labor.

Once declared there is no power of Congress to un-declare. The anti-war Republicans could stop funding, which would make 47% of National War Labor mad.

 

And what does that have to do with anything?

 

The US Code is rather vague on the issue though. What is adherence? What is aid? What is comfort? Those things need to be quantifiable, otherwise anyone who disagrees with whatever the administration considers an 'enemy' could be considered guilty.

So long as there is quantifiable evidence I have no problem with charging people with treason and killing them for it...

 

I think it should be considered treason since both organizations have made clear their intent to murder American citizens.

 

The administration is not the judicary where it would be tried and yes it would take evidence of such support by material support or action.

 

You are correct, the executive is the one that would be hunting people down, revoking their rights, and treating them as guilty until proven innocent, years later the judiciary might see things differently. That isn't what the Founders' intended...

 

I voted yes.

I think that if a citizen of the U.S. expresses support for the declared enemies of our country, they should be prosecuted. Like with any criminal offense, all constitutional protections would apply, all rules of evidence, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, etc.

 

Of course not...that would entail the death penalty, which is cruel. Instead we should fly them over Syria and kindly push them out so they are given what they desire...to show extra pleasantry we can even give their families the opportunity to buy them a parachute.

 

Isn't it the job of the Administration TO hunt down people giving aid and assistance to our enemies and their attacks on us? And how would they be treated as guilty until proven innocent? That would apply to ANYONE charged with a crime then so I guess we should not go after criminals.

Support your claim about the Founding Fathers, they believe treason was such a dangerous offense against the United States they put it in the Constitution. Where did they say the government should NOT go after and charge treasonous people?

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I don't understand why some think otherwise and we just should ignore treason. They speak as if the President will pick up the phone call the FBI and tell them that Joe Blow is a traitor go pick him up and take him to Leavenworth tomorrow and hang him in the morning end of story.

 

You would need very clearly defined criteria before I'll agree to anything about what functions should or shouldn't be allowed by the government. Terrorists are nothing more than violent NGOs, making association outside of violent acts is more an exercise of our freedom of assembly than treason...

 

Fortunately....your permission is neither asked for or required.

 

Of course we should. Individual liberties and rights do not include the right to turn against America. It stands to reason that to join against America is to relinquish ones rights and liberties as well. But first a trial. And if they persist or the evidence proves guilt. Then give them the appropriate boot, whether prison, death or removal from America.

 

I would disagree, you absolutely have the right to stand against America, you do not have the right to attack it though. The problem here is that treason requires specific acts, or should, not simple association by what the the executive at the moment deems a 'terrorist'. That loser Obama can't even say Islamic extremism, neither can Clinton, she says Islamism, like that's something similar, but not. Yet this same administration opened its tenure with reports about so-called right wing extremists and the dangers they posed, all the while calling events like Ft. Hood 'workplace violence'. We as citizens need to be careful as to what we wish for...

 

You are confusing supporting our enemy with disagreeing with American policy.

 

AMERICAN terrorist aligned with our enemies and the criteria is laid out in the Constitution and US CODE. How exactly are you looking to change that to me your criteria?

 

The IS is an international criminal military enemy of the US. Aiding such a criminal organization would probably violate may existing conspiracy statutes - they are legion.

 

That is why a declaration of war against specific terrorist organizations such as ISIS and al Qaeda. You believe nothing should be done to an American citizen who is sending known those groups layouts for targets or safe harbors or food, money and supplies? Do you believe that meeting with such groups or communicating with them is reasonable suspicion to launch an investigation into treason?

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So why not treason since it fully fits the bill?

 

Easier to convict for criminal conspiracy.

 

Depends. Might be easier to get a Treason charge successfully prosecuted. And they are not mutually exclusive anyway both could be the charge with Treason carrying the death penalty, conspiracy a couple of years.

 

American judges and juries are reluctant to see a death penalty applied for any crime. I blame the schools - especially the law schools.

 

but obama and hillary armed terrorists in Libya and Syria.....

 

It has to do with everything.

Because, “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," you may find yourself unable to speak ill of the prophet, because it might hurt the war effort, and upset our Mooslim allies:

"The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others." (Clinton)

Free speech has not always been the same:

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/...801&utm_medium=PDF&utm_campaign=PDFCoverPages

 

What does that have to do with treason are you saying ALL Muslims are terrorist?

 

I am saying like I said before on page two, “I see nothing in the law that says we have to declare war before treason can exist,” and I am saying that Obama and Clinton are traitors to the Constitution already in their attack on free speech against fundamental (radical) Islam in response to Benghazi, so in declared war I would expect more of the same with an increase in other economic and social justice agendas using executive orders with the war effort as an excuse, and all Moslems (who believe the Hadith and Koran are uncorrupted) are potential terrorists, and all those who claim Islam (by the book) is the religion of peace are potential quislings.

Waiting for radical Islamic jihadist terrorist Islamifascist sympathizers to go from motive to opportunity is a loser’s game for us.

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Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament":[68] Speer wrote that Hitler would say: "You see it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[69] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views
http://books.google.com/books?id=XLSa_RIDHMUC&pg=PA96#v=onepage&q&f=false

“Ownership of land

In Islam there are three kinds of land from the stand‑point of ownership:

(1) Lands owned by society

(2) Lands owned by State

(3) Lands owned by private individuals

Lands owned by society

This kind of lands is not salable. Even the State has no right to sell them. Lands developed and tilled by human hands and those which come under Muslim control conse(*)quent on jihad are considered to be the property of the Muslim society and none can purchase or sell even one metre thereof.“
http://www.al-islam.org/philosophyofislam/17.htm

"We, the Palestinian Arab people, who believe in its Arabism...Article 8: Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty. All means of guidance, education and enlightenment should be utilized to introduce the youth to its homeland in a deep spiritual way that will constantly and firmly bind them together." http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/pid/12363

"110a. Not only are the Muslims the chosen people of God, who are now called upon to be the standard-bearers of Truth in the world, but they are at the same time declared to be the best of the people that had ever been chosen for this purpose. This was no doubt due to the excellence of that Great Teacher who thoroughly purified them of the worst vices and made perfect the light within them. No prophet ever found a people in a worse condition, and none ever raised his people to such eminence. Note that the excellence of the Muslim people lies in their enjoining good and forbidding evil and in their great faith in Allåh. If they lose these characteristics, they lose their excellence as well." http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch003-123.pdf

"111a. The Jews in Arabia sided with the enemies of Islåm in their endeavour to extirpate the new religion, and this notwithstanding their pact with the Muslims, but they were not successful in inflicting any serious harm upon the Muslims, and whenever they openly faced the Muslims they fled. As the concluding words show, the idolaters, who gave them secret promises of help, never came to their aid when they were in distress."

112a. Almost the same words, excluding the exception, occur in 2:61. The Jews had already been subjected to the greatest humiliation and disgrace before the appearance of the Prophet. But with the advent of Islåm they could better their condition either by accepting the covenant of Allåh, by which is meant the acceptance of Islåm, or by making a compact of security with such men as could give them protection. This remains true to this day." http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/index.htm

"Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111 Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors." http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b.htm

"It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region," (legitimately elected Palestinian sovereignty)

What is Islam:

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 48:
One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan."

"[4.142] Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them, and when they stand up to prayer they stand up sluggishly; they do it only to be seen of men and do not remember Allah save a little."
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kora...V0&byte=114839

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 191:

Narrated Abdullah bin Abbas:
"He said, 'Do the noble or the poor follow him?' I replied, 'It is the poor who follow him.' He said, 'Are they increasing or decreasing (day by day)?' I replied,' They are increasing.' He said, 'Does anybody amongst those who embrace his (the Prophet's) Religion become displeased and then discard his Religion?'. I replied, 'No. ' He said, 'Does he break his promises? I replied, 'No, but we are now at truce with him and we are afraid that he may betray us." Abu Sufyan added, "Other than the last sentence, I could not say anything against him. Caesar then asked, 'Have you ever had a war with him?' I replied, 'Yes.' He said, 'What was the outcome of your battles with him?' I replied, 'The result was unstable; sometimes he was victorious and sometimes we.' He said, 'What does he order you to do?' I said, 'He tells us to worship Allah alone, and not to worship others along with Him, and to leave all that our fore-fathers used to worship. He orders us to pray, give in charity, be chaste, keep promises and return what is entrusted to us.'"

"The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (go find it yourself)

“[2.40] O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and be faithful to (your) covenant with Me, I will fulfill (My) covenant with you; and of Me, Me alone, should you be afraid.
[2.41] And believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone should you fear.
[2.42] And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know (it).
[2.43] And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.”
“[2.83] And when We made a covenant with the children of Israel: You shall not serve any but Allah and (you shall do) good to (your) parents, and to the near of kin and to the orphans and the needy, and you shall speak to men good words and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate. Then you turned back except a few of you and (now too) you turn aside.”

“And when ye call to prayer they take it for a jest and sport. That is because they are a folk who understand not.” [5.58]

“(Mat 6:5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
(Mat 6:6) But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
(Mat 6:7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
(Mat 6: Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
(Mat 6:9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
(Mat 6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.
(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.”

Any questions as to who was ordering who to bow down with those who bow down?

The center of our mortal enemies’ power is the perfect Art of War book: it pretends peace when Islam is not a faith, it can never lose territory or allow self-determination of peoples because apostasy is punished with death, keeps track of the loyalty of the conquered who are not of the book with perfect prayer to be seen of men, advocates genocide of others for an offending word or a single Muslim woman harmed in a market, advocates raping of war booty, and was “Arab Nationalist” with a promised land on steroids that includes the entire earth should you allow them to spread and gain critical mass.

Did I leave anything out?

“The President’s strategy is absolutely clear about the threat we face. Our enemy is not “terrorism” because terrorism is but a tactic. Our enemy is not “terror” because terror is a state of mind and as Americans we refuse to live in fear. Nor do we describe our enemy as “jihadists” or “Islamists” because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenant of Islam, meaning to purify oneself or one’s community, and there is nothing holy or legitimate or Islamic about murdering innocent men, women and children.” (Remarks by Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism John Brennan at CSIS)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...ecurity-and-counterterrorism-john-brennan-csi

"Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace): It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good" (go find it yourself)

 

And as I said from the getgo correct you do not however it would dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" as that would be the first thing a lawyer will do is try to use that as an angle to delay things. So just pass one and then get on with the charging of treason.

This isn't about Obama and Clinton nor about the beliefs of Islam or whatever other nonsense you posted.