It's obvious Abortion is wrong

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by JoakimFlorence, Jul 7, 2016.

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  1. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    Rights don't exist. It's just mysticism.

    Anyway it's been nice being totally misunderstood and misrepresented.
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :roflol: Irrelevant ? Translated: "I have no answer".



    """"""" On the basis that it is not your body that has to bear the burden, nor is it your right or responsibility to dictate to others who, what, where and when their body can be used by another person.

    As a return question, on what basis do you have the right to stop women getting abortions?

    Is it through some ill conceived notion that your sense of morality is more of a truth than hers and as such you should be able to impose it onto her?""""""
     
  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    If you insist upon posting gobbledygook like "Rights don't exist. It's just mysticism" then it is not at all surprising that you are are being "totally misunderstood".

    However you only have yourself to blame when it comes to being "misrepresented" since you persist in posting drivel that makes no sense whatsoever.

    Yes, We the People do have human rights and denying that fact is akin to denying that you exist.

    Rights stem from exploitation where one or more persons took advantage of others for their own benefit and to the detriment of the exploited. The primary tools used in this exploitation were religion and the withholding of education.

    This situation prevailed until the Magna Carta when the religious concept of the divine right of kings was replaced by govern with the consent of the governed. From that starting point the concept of human rights has expanded and developed to where We the People now understand that we only have the rights that we uphold for each other.

    There is no bogus "mysticism" involved and yes, rights are very real, just ask those who are denied their rights what that is like.
     
  4. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    There's really no difference between you and a religious nut at this point.
     
  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Spurious ad homs, always a sure fire indicator that someone has lost and forfeited their position on the topic.

    :roflol:

    Your concession is duly noted and accepted.

    Have a nice day!

    :roflol:
     
  6. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    It's hard to take any of you guys seriously anymore when you can't even demonstrate a basic understanding of the topic or my posts. You constantly get distracted by differences in content (such as the content of analogy) and can't focus on arguments (the meaning or purpose of the analogy). You all seem to believe that your beliefs have nothing to do with ethical behavior or morality just because you don't want to limit the choices of women. But they clearly do, because you have made a value judgement about good or ethical behavior, specifically the behavior of those who would limit abortions. That you protest this by saying so and so has such and such rights, or that so and so does not have such and such rights, is hilarious, as you are doubling down on an ethical position while denying it at the same time.

    :roflol:

    Good luck with all of that.
     
  7. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Not even the grace to apologize for a gratuitous ad hom?

    Instead you launch yet another denigrating attack on posters because you failed to come up with a coherent defensible position that deals with reality.

    I recommend you use a mirror to find out who is doubling down right now.
     
  8. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    Learn what an ad hominem is. It wasn't an ad hominem, because my comment wasn't meant as an argument against your position. I've accepted that you are incapable of argumentation, so I'm just calling things what they are.

    It's a completely justified and solid critique. If you can't take the heat, don't come in the kitchen.

    Ah you mean opposed to the one who denies the existence of mystical rights? The one who doesn't accept the legitimacy of a piece of paper, no matter how many people have signed it or support it? The one who doesn't buy into the concept as "the people" as a real thing, other than an abstraction, and a tool for ideology? I think it's clear who is in touch with reality here, and it's not you.
     
  9. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does she want a hero biscuit?

    You didn't answer my question - is the zef capable of making and articulating a choice?
     
  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Ironic since it is apparent you are ignorant as to the meaning of the term ad hom.

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ad-hominem

    And for the record let's just repost your gratuitous ad hom and see if it fits the definition above.

    Since that was a direct attack against my character and had nothing whatsoever to do with my argument it fits the definition of an ad hom to a Tee!

    So yes, the irony is delicious, thank you.

    :clapping:
    BZZZT Wrong again!

    It was just another screed of ad homs since you failed to prove your position.

    Want me to prove that? Sure, why not? This is what you posted;

    7 instances of the use of the personal pronoun followed by denigrating comments is solid evidence of attacking character.

    Irony squared!

    :clapping::clapping:
    Irony cubed since you are PROJECTING your own failings onto others.

    :clapping::clapping::clapping:
     
  11. TortoiseDream

    TortoiseDream Active Member

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    That's not a very good definition of ad hominem. If we consult the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, we find something more complete:

    In other words your definition only gets half of what an ad hominem is. Pointing out a "negative" aspect of someone is not an ad hominem. You have to state that this negative aspect is the reason you are wrong. I never did that.

    The record speaks for itself. My critique was fair and correct. How can you take someone seriously when they think, "you have made a value judgement about good or ethical behavior" is a denigrating remark. lmao :roflol:

    No attempt to defend any of those claims you've made then? At least you're not doubling down anymore. Did you know that simply repeating your claims and conclusions doesn't count as an argument?
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you think. You have your own belief. No matter my reply, nothing I say will change it one bit.

    No, she simply was thrilled she got to live.

    I have a question that is non confrontational.

    Do you wish your mom had aborted you?
     
  13. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    On the probability that you are unaware of the first rule of holes, when you discover that you are at the bottom of your own hole stop digging!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    YOU said:

    YOU brought it up, but still won't answer my perfectly pertinent question.


    Why should I answer your question when you won't answer mine?
     
  15. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unless you claim the unborn has the choice, I honestly see no question able to be asked me.

    Do you think the unborn has choice?
     
  16. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    Pro Lifers don't believe the fetus infringes on the rights of the woman. She lost those rights when she engaged in procreation. The fetus didn't just crawl up inside the woman. It grew there. The woman didn't complain when the seed was planted.

    A woman has the right not to get pregnant, not to not be pregnant. Once she is pregnant, those rights go away.
    Pro Lifers believe this because (A) pregnancy is completely natural and (B) the fetus would have to die for the woman to assert her "rights".

    The fetus doesn't harm the woman—not in the conventional sense of the word, not in most pregnancies.
     
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    And how does that fetus convey it's choice? Gives you a phone call? Holds a séance? Posts it on Facebook? Taps it out in Morse code ??

    Gee, it has no phone nor the brains to form an opinion...I wonder how you IMAGINE it would decide....because imagination is all you've got....
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I think you forget that just because YOU don't acknowledge all the posts proving you wrong on all counts that no one else does either.....and that's why you repeat the same old illogical, juvenile , and untrue crap....


    You even still comment on the fetus not causing the woman harm , but you, LIKE ALL OTHER ANTI-CHOICERS, have NEVER proven that.........but then proof of what you say has never been necessary to Anti-Choicers....they think repetition is all they need....:roflol:
     
  19. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    An unconscious woman can't convey her choice either. Would you take advantage of her because she couldn't say 'no' ?
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, an unconscious woman who can't respond exactly like a fetus can't. One HUGE difference, the woman has rights and the fetus doesn't :)

    Got that "proof " that women aren't harmed by pregnancy yet ?? :roflol: You sure have said it often enough with NO proof whatsoever....what are you waiting for??
     
  21. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is called not reading my post at all.

    Let me show you what I had stated.

     
  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe you stated rights are limited.

    What limits do you believe and accept are placed on the woman in question?
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The abortionist causes the woman harm. But you approve that.
     
  24. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    The majority of women don't care about that. They just want to make the baby disappear.
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but no woman ANYWHERE at anytime "loses rights because of procreation"
     
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