After Nice, Don’t Give ISIS What It’s Asking For

As many experts have argued, Islamophobia only strengthens the terrorists.

Islamic State’s Goal: “Eliminating the Grayzone” of Coexistence Between Muslims and the West, The Intercept, Nov. 17 2015

 

[video=youtube;EtkeO-uZEpg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkeO-uZEpg[/video]

 

New UN report reveals collaboration between Israel and Syrian rebels

The new documents show that Israel has been doing more than simply treating wounded Syrian civilians in hospitals....

(UNDOF) reveals that Israel has been working closely with Syrian rebels in the Golan Heights and have kept close contact over the past 18 months. The report was submitted to the UN Security Council at the beginning of the month.

The documents show that Israel has been doing more than simply treating wounded Syrian civilians in hospitals. This and a few past reports have described transfer of unspecified supplies from Israel to the Syrian rebels, and sightings of IDF soldiers meeting with the Syrian opposition east of the green zone...
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Ne...ation-between-Israel-and-Syrian-rebels-383926


Head of Syrian army after alleged airstrikes: Israel working with ISIS and al-Qaida
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...-Israel-working-with-ISIS-and-al-Qaida-383907

 

Either provide the UN quote that says Isreal supports Isis or delete your bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Because this is a flat out lie. Isreal is supporting the Syrian Rebels. So is the US! Isis and these rebels are NOT the same group. You are so bad at trolling it's not even amusing anymore. Why don't you go to stormfront or something where you and your fellow anti Jew bigots can all love on eachother?

 

I keep asking myself, How hard is it to know where and who is causing world wide unrest on a consistent and constant basis? Why would ANYONE or ANY nation allow muslims to come in? How can you tell the difference between those that are innocent vs those that are not? Whoever allows muslims to continue to flow, is only upping the anti to guarantee yet, another muslim attack while shouting alla akbar!!!
Children can figure this out folks...Why so dumb when you KNOW who is doing it and what religion they represent?

 

The changing face of terrorism...

Renewed Fears Attacks Like Nice Are the Future of Jihad
July 16, 2016 - As investigators in France began sifting through the devastation of the attack on Bastille Day celebrations in Nice that killed 84 people, some Western intelligence officials were already alarmed.

See also:

'Learn to Live With Terrorism' Strikes Some as Good Advice
July 15, 2016 - In the hours after the terror attack in Nice, France, Prime Minister Manuel Valls riled many critics when he said that “times have changed, and France should learn to live with terrorism.”

 

There is as yet no evidence that this massacre was based on terrorism. On at the moment the 3rd post, also I think third video down there is a supposed neighbour talking about the man - zero interest in Islam or ISIS. The neighbour says he was interested in booze, smoking hash and stealing, not Islam or ISIS or any of the rest of them. On the night of the attack the neighbour claims he was in a pub drinking and got involved in an verbal fight with someone who told him he was worth nothing

https://twitter.com/ajplus

Something which was caught on video by a resident has not been getting much talk. Before he started any killing there is a video of a motorbike coming up beside him and trying to open the door of his van. He is unsuccessful and the motorbike driver falls off. This is followed by what sounds like two gunshots which the video onlooker claims were from the police. It was only after this that he began his killing spree.

If he was radicalised it happened very quickly is all people can say

http://www.dawn.com/news/1271291

He was not a religious man. I believe several Muslims were among the killed. As he supposedly chose those he was going to kill, it would appear he chose them too.

His father of course has also said he suffered from mental health problems, had had a break down and had stopped taking his medication. He also was known as a petty criminal sometimes violent.

We do not yet know whether this particular incident had anything to do with radical Islam but if it does it would appear that like with the murderers of Lee Ribgy, his interest would be only to justify his actions. It seems more likely that ISIS is just claiming he was their soldier for propaganda purposes.

 

But Alexa he had a funny name and was from the middle east!

 

I dont think the Europeans care much when he vowed to ISIS or if he was just "inspired", I think to suggest he was only desperate - doesnt do the Muslim comunitty that much good, all it means that Muslims dont need to be religous to be dangerous to Europeans, only displeased ? I'd stick with religous nuts to be the cause.....

 

The information at the moment suggests neither. I mentioned the murderers of Lee Rigby. They were Christians but deliberately signed up with radical Islam not Islam. I think it is possible that they did this to satisfy their conscience over what they wanted to do anyway - that is they had seen people being destroyed in other countries and by their own admission wanted Londoners to know what it felt like witnessing this. With this particular individual he clearly was in no way a Muslim if we assume a Muslim is someone who follows that religion. No evidence has as yet come to light that he had any interest in ISIS or any other radical group. The only possible relationship from the evidence we have at the moment he could have was a hope that ISIS would say he was one of their soldiers but given that from the evidence we have he did not even make that known that too seems unlikely.

It would be helpful if people dealt with the evidence available rather than what they want it to be.

As yet there is no evidence that this crime was committed from the psychological positioning of Islam extremism. It is understandable given the current situation that that would be what people would first think but so far there is no evidence to support that he was either trained or inspired by ISIS to commit this massacre. I would suggest also Gilos that you do not present something as being what 'European's' think. There is wide variation in that thinking and that is a different issue to that we are talking about here.

I did not suggest the reason for his massacre. Just said that on the information we have now there is no evidence that he committed this massacre due to radical islamist extremism intending it to be an act of terrorism in their name.

 

What is that supposed to mean? Those Muslims are Europeans! Seems that the only reason that you have posted is just to attack all Muslims. In what way was he "Muslim"? He drank alcohol, he ate bacon, he did not pray but you focus on his religion of birth that clearly he did not follow. Do you not realise that some people do have mental issues that can lead to tragedies like this? And some people with mental illness leading to murdering people are "Christian" or "Jewish" but would you focus on their religion of birth and say that they are religious nuts?

 

In the same way a Jewish person that never celebrated the holydays or even prayed decideds one day to make "Aliya" and live the rest of his life in Israel as the last Judean tribe member - Nationality ! , the thought you belong to something bigger and have the power to contribute for generations to come.

Call it ethnic or religion but one thing is for sure, all these terrorists did not have Islamic heritage by fluk and they certainly did not feel they were killing their own ppl.

 

We all should support the FSA and the Peshmerga who are fighting both ISIS and Assad.

 

Your just lying he was yelling Allah Akbar and they found jihadist literature on his computer you people aren't fooling anyone.

 

Provide evidence for both of these allegations which you are putting here with a strong and malicious personal attack. Neither of them are being reported in mainstream media in the UK nor are they reported in an article in the guardian on the work currently being done by academics to find what motivated him to do this act so provide your sources.

 

I think that is a unique thing and not comparable. The issue concerning the use of the word Muslim in this respect has to do with the haters of the religion Islam who blame it for everything just like in the past it was Jews. Given that he was not a practising Muslim it makes the argument that it was Islam not very strong. However in many ways he does fit the type which tends to go this way in the West. They are generally not strong in their faith and frequently have a criminal past and or mental health issues. People are suggesting that that is the way this generation is rebelling

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/16/nice-truck-attack-terrorism-profile

Obviously understanding what motivates them is important for sorting it out. French Muslims have collectively been having a hard time since the attacks began last year. People have even been speaking about them as 2nd class citizens.

However with this man the best they have come up with to suspect it is an act of terrorism is that it may have been preplanned in that he had rented the van and the day on which it was committed. However this could just be coincidence. The van was apparently due to have been returned on Wednesday - one would think if one was intending a terrorist attack that you wouldn't have the police possible looking out for your van and of course the day could also be a coincidence.

Well they have not proved yet this man was a terrorist. Looking at the above quote again

In none of the major terrorist attacks has there been any attempt to not kill Muslims. They have absolutely no difficulty killing Muslims and regardless of whether this was an act of terrorism or not, nor it would appear did he.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/todays-news/174972/many-muslims-killed-in-nice-attack

 

He was yelling Allah Akhbar:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/crazed-nice-lorry-terrorist-shouted-8426243

I can't find an article on the computer I heard that on the news but the French authorities have said he was radicalized so I'll take their word over yours:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...europe/france-attack-on-nice-isis/index.html#

 

You can't find it or it does not exist?
EXCLUSIVE - 'He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. He was NOT a Muslim - he was a s***': Truck terrorist's family friend reveals he is an 'unlikely jihadist' who beat his wife and NEVER went to the mosque

Truck terrorist who murdered 84 people in a horrific drive along the Nice seafront drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs - all banned by Islam
Close family friend of his estranged wife said 'he was not a Muslim, he was a s***' as he revealed he didn't pray or go to mosque
The couple separated after reports of domestic abuse two years ago and their divorce proceedings 'depressed' him
Detectives raided the family home and the flat where Bouhlel lived alone and took his wife into protective custody


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html#ixzz4EgIjS7vY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

I agree and its pretty much what I wanted to say, I also agree with your qoute, if for Western kids turn to crime has the anti establishment answer than kids with Muslim heritage have their own death cult culture that's the anti establishment answer. its not about Islam, its a weapon developed in a far part of the world, bullets that walk around Western society and the Internet that connects them, now who and how will the West fight ?

Poverty, scorned love, desperation, anything that might make a person take his own life, yes, but more than that if they kill westerners in a "ceremonial" Da'esh way, there is both hatred to the West AND strong national/religous emotion involved. it even makes more sense when radicals inflame this western hate with propaganda on daily genocides, what serves as political protest to westerners could lead a person that doesnt feel part of that culture anyway - to do something radical for the oppressed culture he has some link to and certainly feels both emotionly and ethincly more related.

If he wasnt truly insane then he had enough time to think it over, News said he studied the street a day before, and to say he was likly to just another nut like in America really ignores the ethnic identity and the very words of all the latest terrorists in Europe.

It doesnt really matter to policies

Muslims do kill other Muslims just fine, I didnt propose he did it for Muslims, he did it for "True" Muslims, and that can mean anything really.

 

As for I know, the father of the subject has some contacts with extremist environments [at least this is what comes out from Tunisian sources], but not him, again at leas as for we can know.

Anyway, if a depressed man [because of a divorce, if I've understood well] does such an act of terrorism [and not a clamorous suicide], it's evident the "suggestion" or the "inspiration".

An Italian descendant of Ukrainian immigrants would have never thought to do that, even if depressed or desperate. There are no "cultural suggestions" in the Ukrainian background to die as terrorist, looking may be for a final meaning to a not marvelous life coming to a point of no return.

And this is the real point: Islamism and its influence on and in some Muslim environments.

In Italy we are not going to ban Muslims [btw, I would see a couple of good friends forced to leave Italy and this would be annoying!], but we are going to increase control measures on those environments [I know this is a debated argument in some countries, but intelligence has to protect the Republic, so I don't care a nut about the respect of privacy at any cost].

 

OK

I am not convinced that this was an intended 'terrorist' act. They are generally saying on our tvs now that the motivation for the attack is not known. I wish given that that ,they would stop calling in a terrorist attack or at the very most call it a suspected terrorist attack. That is quite important for the Muslims all over Europe who had nothing to do with it and will be experiencing attacks in retaliation.

The reasons also vary. The Frenchman for instance who was killing Jews did not believe in killing ordinary French citizens and let one go saying this. Politics is also a motivating factor. In France her Colonialism and also her present activity in Muslim countries.

I don't go for this 'jealous of our way of life' meme. It is their way of life as well. One they frequently were involved in before they became radicalised. Research suggests most who go abroad to fight for ISIS go for political reasons not religious - that is empathy because of the West's destruction of the ME and the resultant death which some people are saying is as many as four million Muslims. I know the Brits who did 7/7 and they were integrated successful people, were fed videos of thousands of Muslims, particularly women and children having been brutally killed.

It is not so simple to make a blue print of what will drive a person to go fight in the ME or to get involved in terrorism but we do know for the terrorists they generally are people who do not feel they belong - and it would appear that in this they do not even have the security of being strongly involved in religion which that brings. They are the odd balls. They are not making it and I guess this gives them something to make themselves believe they are someone. If it is true that the ISIS fighters are given drugs to carry out their dastardly deeds, then that may have something to do with it.

French Muslims have been suffering collectively since the terrorist attacks began. Given that we are beginning to see a pattern in those who engage in these attacks as people who are marginalised who do not fit it, then this is not a good move. Historically France has not been too good with her immigrants. This too has something to do with it. Scottish Muslims currently have a very good relationship with the Government and with the police and feel they belong and only about 3 have been drawn to fight Islamic State though one of them is probably the most notorious woman to go.

The current hate propaganda against Muslims only makes the situation worse by making them not feel a part of society. The reality is that until there is stability in the ME there is going to be terrorism in the West. At the moment Europe seems to be seeing some Governments and France is one having a more destructive attitude towards their Muslims to keep the far right at bay. It is also necessary to make sure people do have their democratic ways to express dissent. There has been some argument that some of the UK Prevent strategies actually stop people from being able to talk about things. Such discussion would allow people to find the ways that democratic societies have to express dissent and work for change. These are the safeguards we have in democracies. The real test for the West is to recognise that all but a tiny few have as much dislike of extremism as the rest of us. In the UK during the NI 'troubles' most of us managed not to treat all Irish as if they were terrorists and something of that nature would be a big step forward - certainly as far as this forum is concerned but they do say extremists tend towards political forums!

That is true but at the moment our response is in danger of fueling it by treating all Muslims as if that was them. Again avenues need to be open for people to make genuine protest and/or for their voices to be heard - otherwise we are no longer acting as democracies. Having said that most of what I have been hearing in the UK about how we need to work after this massacre in France (which may not be terrorism) is more along the lines which I have been speaking.

No motivation is known. If someone wants to go out as a terrorist they generally make that known and he left no message to indicate this and people planning a terrorist attack rarely use a vehicle which ought to have been returned and may well have been reported to the police.

It is very definitely a possibility that he was just a nut but we need to wait to see if anything can be found to link him to extremism. Initial investigation of his property found nothing.

You are claiming he must be stereotyped because of his ethnic identity. I do not agree with this stance. Stereotyping an ethnicity is generally a sign of hatred and a desire to harm them.

Seeing how things are and acting in an appropriate manner is essential for correct policies. Both ISIS and the Western Far Right want all Muslims out of Europe - just like Israel and the Far Right want all Jews out of certainly Europe.

There is not one single piece of evidence to believe that truck driver did what he did for 'true Muslims'. His life went against Islam and there is no evidence at all at the moment to link him with extremist Islam. When you keep adding these bits which have no basis in reality you come over as being prejudiced.

 

It is known to all.
Artist terrorist attack in Nice, .....for his "feat"....ISIS paid him 100,000$


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...00-family-Tunisia-DAYS-murdering-84-Nice.html

 

Proof please

I am assuming you are not suggesting this Daily Fail article which does not say what you claim is proof of what you claim.

 

I say give ISIS exactly what it wants. The solution is right there. According to ISIS muslims would either "go apostate or join them"

Nothing would eradicate ISIS faster than having the rest of the muslims joining another religion en masse. I have faith that "moderate muslims" will join us in the 21st century as opposed to joining ISIS.

 

France has now discovered it does fit their definition of terrorism. He apparently planned it and lots of ISIS material was found on his computer some particularly nasty.

He had started to grow a beard to become religious only 8 days before he did it apparently!

There is apparently no evidence that he had pledged any allegiance to ISIS, just that he had visited jihadist websites. The inspiration part is maybe more complicated. According to his family he had long term mental health problems and was subject to violence - the reason I think his wife left him. I am guessing in this situation he did not decide to kill himself and others because of politics or religion but rather feeling angry and wanting to die and take others with him, this looked like a good move. It could even be seen as anti Islam.

I don't agree with you that it is Islam and it's influence on and in some Muslim environments. He was not interested in Islam. Everyone is very clear on that. It appears he had a very recent interest in jihadi websites but no known contact with ISIS or similar people. I think here you are looking more at a similar thing to copy cat murders and it is I would say from what we know as likely that he would have done something similar even if he did not have the blue print of Islamic extremism to go by.

Now this man did not come under radar because it appears his influence in becoming radical was extremely short. Just how short is yet to be known but I would think hardly what you would expect anyone to have the emotions to want to give up his life for - rather it looks like it provided the framework for what he already wanted to do.

I had no idea Italy was thinking of deporting it's Muslims - though we did have an Italian on here for a while talking about such things.

Right now everything just seems crazy and not just Muslims.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ed-mohamed-lahouaiej-bouhlel-beard-prosecutor