What Happens If Religion Is Proved False?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by upside-down cake, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not, I think if a religious fanatic stopped believing in their religion, they would just be a fanatic about something else.. sad but true
     
  2. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Prove it
     
  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    how many more times?


    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/455194-freedom-atheism.html

    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/457032-failure-atheism-account-morality.html

    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/456263-first-church-atheism.html

    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/462576-myth-smarter-atheist.html

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    I love football and I refuse to stop believing in it.
     
  4. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    One time would be nice as you have never proven it or offered a SPECK of evidence to support your idiotic claims.

    Now prove it.

    No one believes in football it is simply part of reality.
     
  5. Electron

    Electron Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sure the religious of the world would ignore proof their religions are false. Case in point: look up "flat earth proof" on youtube, it's crackpot central. 99% young Earth Christians.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I already told you that I believe in football and have made it my religion, if that is too complicated for you to comprehend there is nothing anyone can do to help.

    Again I suggest you write to webster and merriam and stomp your feet that they (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up your ignorant atheism is not a religion theory post.

    As I said folks buckle your seatbelt for the comedy!

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    Go ahead prove that football is false
     
  7. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have and as usual you are providing it. But thanks for the heads up anyway!
     
  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I guess I forgot, sorry.
     
  9. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Websters and Merriam never stated or claimed or defined atheism as a religion.

    It has already been proven that your pet definition of religion is made up and false and does not apply here.

    Your out right made up lie is that any and all beliefs are religion is a false statement.

    Now prove your claim and stop evading
     
  10. juanvaldez

    juanvaldez Banned

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    We can see how foolish past religions were. Take Islam, they worship an illiterate guy who was screwin' a 9 year girl. Christians believe that an extra-terrestrial came to Earth and impregnated a 12 year old Jewish girl who gave birth to a son with supernatural powers. Scientology was made from whole cloth. Mormons worship Joseph Smith, a con artist who could decipher golden plates that nobody ever saw but him with a magic rock that he look at in his hat. You can't make this stuff up!
     
  11. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    "....and all the people accepted this idea that all the religions of the world were and are, indeed, false"

    How did I get the premise wrong?

    Not being religious doesn't directly equate to nihilism especially in the context of wanting to create a better world. The reason people assume that it does apparently comes from this idea that religion has intrinsic value or an objective meaning. The variations of religion alone eliminates the possibility of it having an objective meaning and any intrinsic value it has is subjective. If the religion is proved false as claimed in the OP then the meaning it had was made up which means we haven't actually lost anything other than a delusion.

    There is also an illusion about the religious community because they are most often exclusive and judgmental but they are typically ignorant of said judgment because they consider their judgments virtuous. If you cannot be a part of the community without accepting the religion as true then its cooperation is a shame and if you don't have to accept the religion as true the religion is irrelevant.

    "This is the way we've always done things" is not a great foundation for the creation or continuation of a society that's been created by a species that relies on adaptation to survive. Now I would agree that a gradual change is better but history has made arguments that some times the only way to create change is abruptly. No matter how gradual eventually you will have to take the force clinging to the past head on. You could argue the longer you take to make the change the less resistance you will eventually be met with but on the flip side greater resistance could mount over time through regression. Other than history there is no written set of rules.

    Also your idea that there is less of sense of community in the world is the same thing every generation thinks. They always think things were better back when but it's not true. It just seems better because it's more familiar. More people are connected now then at any other point in human history. Sure I am just text on a screen but here people feel more free to be themselves. Online there is less social pressure to conform or be politically correct.
     
  12. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    Lol when you mentioned strawmen arguments were you trying to be ironic?
     
  13. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fair enough, I guess I was just responding to the thread title without taking the OP fully into account, my mistake.

    For a nihilist, nihilism just means making your choices without any religious or objective morality. It places the responsibility for the decisions on the individual alone, based on context and an individualistic sense of identity.

    The problem is the rapid decent into it before a person has the ability to fully form a complete world of meaning all on their own. Religion is a crutch, and people may be stronger without it, but pull a crutch out when someone's leaning on it and... flop.

    Community cohesion is not so much about loneliness as it is about people being aware and caring about the needs of the people living around them. The results (of lacking it) are increased homelessness, disaffected youth, and a culture of blame. Yes, every generation has a bit of this gripe and the past was by no means perfect, but plenty of secular sociologist are publishing reports on this. Its an objective reality.

    Personally I think its irrational to be nice to people just to avoid hell, but in a broad social context it may be a pragmatic truth. People in groups just don't act rationally enough for me to completely disregard the possibility of (some) social collapse with the sudden absence of it.

    On the other hand, if it can gradually fade out, I think humans will be fine.

    PS. I work with and around religious people and groups. I know the weirdness and sense of alienation when I get forced into revealing my atheism. I refuse to lead prayers or take communion, and people notice some times. But I respect the devotion to working to help people that they have.
     
  14. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I certainly do not think it would (or could) happen...

    ...but just as a hypothetical...

    ...I think the world would be a better place. Religions cause trouble.

    It is my opinion that even if there are gods...

    ...religions are a net negative for society.

    And that holds despite the fact that I see religions as having some positive influence in the world.
     
  15. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Power structures just aren't based upon religion in countries like America. The biggest crisis in America would be in the republican party because they would lose some of their biggest selling points, although it seems like the potency of that has been declining for quite some time since the 1950s.

    Already happening, and Trump would be an example, albeit not a great one, of an alternative to the religious version of the right.

    Rethink borders based upon all of us losing religion? Again, not in most areas of the world. Maybe the middle east though. Now if there were a massive influx of muslims who didn't accept American values because of their religion, that might be the kind of thing that could lead to new borders. But American values are basically secular already. Our alliances historically have been more based upon capitalism versus socialism, socialism being seen as less religious so it would actually reduce the differences there.

    I think it's true people would find excuses to hate each other, but I still think the overall level would likely be lower unless people turned heavily towards nationalism as a result of the decline of religion, something I doubt - though I would argue nationalism is not very different from religion except that it's at least known that the nation exists in the first place (unlike gods or the afterlife).

    The world would be a better place, ceteris paribus, but people would still be imperfect and greedy. Differing religions split people apart like almost nothing else though, and only the most extreme forms of nationalism could do the same kind of damage in terms of dehumanizing others.
     
  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Absent a deity many would follow a perceived Grur or wise person... which is not much different than what many do today.
     
  17. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    You cannot prove religions to be false. They are based on faith and not logic
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    incorrect
     
  19. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Certainly. Some cultures might collapse. Others who have been accustomed to religious based morality might find themselves a bit lost. It really depends on how much religion has been interwoven into the lives and culture of the people we're talking about.

    The world would definitely change. It might even get worse. I think it would at least be that way before it would get better, after an adjustment period. But there is no certainty of a positive outcome. Religion is an idea and an emotional response. Science can disprove religion beyond a shadow of a doubt but it cannot disprove an emotional response. It cannot disprove a person's psychological need for whatever religion is used to meet. I think the idea that disproving religion would make it go away is rooted in the criticism that religious people just don't know any better, as if logic and knowledge are all that go into being religious.
     
  20. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    It is faith in general that must be questioned. Although I do suspect that things that call the perspective and narrative of the major religions into question will lead to further decline. For example, the god making us in his image might seem even more ridiculous if we met a superior alien civilization.
     
  21. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any definitive statements about what exists in the REALITY of existence...and what does not exist in it...are faith based. They are blind guesses about the great unknown.

    Nothing wrong with making guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...but all they are...are blind guesses.

    Hard core theism and hard core atheism are BOTH the product of pure guesswork.
     
  22. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but believing in something for which there is no evidence is not equivalent to not believing in something for which there is no evidence.
     
  23. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    You Might want to explain the use of " hard core " in your post.
     
  24. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    So far you are the only person who believes you have proven religion through logic. Lets not go through that useless exercise again.
     
  25. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    May be...but that does not impact on what I said.

    Allow me to repeat:

    Any definitive statements about what exists in the REALITY of existence...and what does not exist in it...are faith based. They are blind guesses about the great unknown.

    In this area...a "belief" is nothing more than a blind guess about something unknown.

    A guess that REALITY contains NO gods...is no less a blind guess than a guess that REALITY contains at least one god.

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    If you need it explained in the context in which I used it...

    ...you would not get it anyway.

    So...just ignore it.
     

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