Uber loses landmark employment tribunal case in the UK

Will UBER make for the demise of unions, as people who once had a job turn to UBER when their UI runs out? And though earning a compensation, are not considered "employees"?

Not in the UK, where some employees just won a court case against UBER: Uber loses landmark employment tribunal case – as it happened. Excerpt:

Uh oh.

NB: UBER says it will appeal the verdict. Of course ...

 

Enforcing uber drivers to be employees is unnecessary and just adds to the time and complexity involved with doing business in London. This helps no one. Everyone loses in this situation.

Uber will take longer to hire.
Uber will not be able to employ as many drivers.
London travelers will pay more for Uber rides as the market for drivers tightens due to this ruling.
London travelers will take longer to get rides as fewer drivers will operate in the city.

 

You will get the same thing happening in places like Australia and Europe because we are not anti-union like the USA is. The only places the Uber and 'shared economy' business models could have really worked are places like China or India that have no workers protection. And Uber failed big in China. Uber is a loser. Tesla is a loser. Tesla is lying about making a profit in last quarter. It is obvious. They are almost %$%$ed. And now we got Iron Man out every day trying to set up a duopoly between Uber and Tesla.. What retarded bunch of %$%$s. Honestly. It is %$%$ing ridiculous. When is this %$%$ going to %$%$ off to Mars anyway? Can he take Travis whatever his name is with him?

 

Oh really? It helps workers and passengers doesnt it?

And who gives a flying %$%$ about Uber? Hopefuly Uber dies. And soon. They do not make a profit. All Uber is is a capitalist attack on the workers rights of the west. We all know it.

There is nothing wrong with a taxi. And uber is a taxi - just a taxi that gives its workers no protections and does not obey national laws. At the end of the day all Uber is is a criminal capitalist operation.

 

You capitalists think that you are so very clever dont you? And you think that all of us are borderline retarded.

http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/thread-1328623-1-1.html

[video=youtube;iXzXL1YT1_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXzXL1YT1_k[/video]

CIA needs to promote Conscious Capitalism. It is a winner. These Silicon Valley losers are losers and so is the so-called 'gig economy'.

edit - *******n Silicon Valley carnies.

Shenanigans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Uber is something like a $20B company now. Not sure how many have gone from $0 to $20B in 5 years or so but I bet the list doesn't have more than 3-5 companies on it.

Once driverless cars hit the scene, all your beloved Uber employees will immediately be made obsolete and relieved of their services. Shall they ban together and use the court system to prevent Uber from using automated cars? I think we are staring at a $50-$100B company when they do start to transition to fully automated fleet. Exciting times ahead indeed.

 

Why would hiring take longer? The elements that would take time (legal checks etc.) Uber should already be doing (and in the UK at least apparently are).
Uber could employ as many drivers under an employment structure, it would just cost them more. They’d be no worse off than any other taxi company though.
Uber would probably increase its rates to cover that cost, though they’d still be able to keep them lower than the traditional competitors and certainly lower than the regulated black-cab fares.
There’s never going to be a shortage of taxis in London (or any other major UK city). There wasn’t a shortage of taxis before Uber even existed and there wouldn’t be even if they went away. They weren’t filling a gap in the market, they were seeking to out-compete existing providers.

 

Yeah, right. And so?

This isn't a beauty contest.

Driverless cars make no difference. People who take taxis (in most urban lplaces) don't have cars, and if working in cities they will keep their cars parked and take a taxi. Yes, the taxis could be driverless. (Which greatly restricts the market.)

There is only one way that driverless-cars will become a major product, and that is the day nobody is allowed a driver's licence. Either all cars are driverless, or accidents will continue to happen, especially with drunken drivers.

Yes, if there is a device that detects alcohol and refuses to start the engine, then someone will find a way to trick-it and continue sipping his/her vodka-martini whilst driving (if allowed to do so).

Logically, the choice seems no driverless cars or all driverless cars. The mix of both might be one great bother. I don't see it replacing taxis in large cities where - driverless or not - you still have to find a parking space, which is pain in the you-know-what ...

 

Your statements violate the addition property of equality in numerous ways:
1. surely there are more elements involving employees than non-employees otherwise there would not even be a case. Therefore, we know the ruling can be adds 1 or more processes to hiring. If you add processes or procedures to the hiring and management process but do not add additional time to accommodate these changes you are violating and or ignoring this fundamental law of physics/math/the universe. You should instead argue that you think the benefit of the employee distinction is worth the cost it puts on the business and society.

2. "Uber could employ as many drivers under an employment structure, it would just cost them more." Your violation here is self evident. If two scenarios require unequal amounts of resources...they simply are not equal.

You go on to recognize the detriments to both Uber and society:
you state - Uber would raise prices - who pays? Consumers pay.

 

Uber will have a fleet of driverless cars within 10 years. When that time comes, the taxi industry will be completely destroyed if Uber and Lyft dont destroy it prior to that. Technology becomes more feasible over time. The driver is profit (no pun intended).

People that resist technology are always the ones that will get left behind wondering what happened. That is not an enviable position to be in.

 

Some additional elements yes, but that doesn't mean it would take more elapsed time. The things that take longest will (should!) already being done and a lot of the things Uber would need to do the drivers currently have to do themselves but Uber will already have a HR department for the employees they do have which should actually be able to perform those tasks more efficiently than private individuals.

I never said it was equal. It would obviously cost more but Uber could employ the same number of drivers.

I don't consider an increase in one companies already low taxi fares to be a major detriment to society. I think a set of workers getting better pay and conditions with a better managed and regulated environment to be a benefit to society.

(I'm not actually convinced this court case was the right way to achieve those ends but we're talking about the underlying principle here)

 

The employee requirement creates more work. Ubers operational expense increase.

Good point on principal. The details matter in these cases. If someone really is an employee so be it...protect em with laws.

Uber drivers determine everything about their work. They are about as pure an example of contractors as it gets. The ruling is absolutely assinine. And it is probably an extension of tmLondons taxi lobby influencing an outcome.

 

Ha. So-called self driving technology doesn't work. And most people are not going to trust a taxi that does not have a driver. Going driverless would actually give companies that employ drivers an advantage. But like I said, the technology doesn't work and people do not want it. We want driverless cars as much as we want a 3D TV.

Uber and Tesla are just like Theranos. How much did you capitalists tell us Theranos was worth again. Ha. How much was Elizabeth Holmes worth again?

And isn't Uber going to have flying cars? I read that the other day. Flying cars. What a joke. It is as if preschoolers run Uber. Same with Tesla. Uber is going to give us flying cars and Iron Man is going to move to Mars. What a couple of total $%$%wits. It is hilarious.

Flying cars. I guess it would be a lot easier to bring about flying cars than ones that can actually drive themselves on public roads. If any company is crazy enough to put fully self driving cars on the road and governments are crazy enough to let them then there will be accident after accident just like there has been with Teslas so-called auto-pilot. Did you read that the German government has demanded that Tesla stop using the word 'autopilot' to describe its so-called self driving technology? It is because it doesn't work and is dangerous false advertising. An 'autopilot' that requires the driver to have hands on steering wheel at all times - but for some reason has a system that warns you to 'check in' with the steering wheel. The Tesla 'beta' system encourages you to take your hands off the steering wheel while claiming that you must keep hands on steering wheel at all times... And by encouraging the driver to believe that the vehicle will react and not drive under a massive truck Telsa autopilot technology reduces reaction times and makes accidents more likely. But Iron Man tells us that his 'beta' system is safer than humans... Ha. WTF. Modern capitalist are serious retards. I know that their parents would fully agree with me. It is like an entire generation of idiot sons and daughters.

And you capitalists are going to free us all of vehicle ownership are you? HA! Very exciting times indeed... HA! Oh my God. Where do these Silicon Valley retards find their focus groups anyway? Preschool? Why the hell would Iron Man and his buddy Travis whatever his name is think that we do not want to own cars? HAA! Oh my God. Think about it for more than five seconds. These silicon valley retards are capitalists that eat fellow capitalists. 'Disruptors'.... They are a bigger enemy of capitalism than the worker. Apparently Iron Man and Travis whatever his name is' dream is to end vehicle ownership for the masses. They are like reverse Henry Fords apparently. HA! Oh my God. We won't need much if an automotive industry when the dynamic duo rid the world of car ownership for the masses. That is good for capitalism.... WTF? Not that the masses do not want to own cars - and most of us would prefer to control a vehicle ourselves than to put our lives in the hands of technology that drives people under trucks. So the automotive industry should be fine for the foreseeable future shouldn't it.

You capitalists saved some money by designing dump trucks that can drive themselves from point a to b on a mine site - which is not hard since there is no traffic and straight lines - and you have all jerked off over yourselves thinking that this is the next big thing that will be as big as 3D TV. They pay dump truck drivers up to 100K a year here in Australia. Think of all the savings capitalists could make.. How much do Uber drivers make again? How much to put an entire fleet of self driving vehicles on the road do you think? Now that will be a risky investment indeed. And then Ubers business model is fully destroyed because they will no longer be able to claim to be a middleman. And they will be stuck with the costs of registering and maintaining their massive fleet of robot cars. HA! It is $%$%ing hilarious.

And getting a vehicle to be able to drive safely on public roads is a little different to getting a dump truck on a mine site to drive itself in straight lines with no traffic to dump dirt.

But I am no Luddite. Why would I care if the world no longer needs taxi drivers? That would be great because taxi driver is a totally crappy low paying job. The less crappy low paying jobs in the world the better. But the fact is that this self driving junk does not work and people do not want it. That is the problem - not Uber drivers losing their so-called jobs.

Flying cars and trips to Mars. HA! What a time to be alive..

Edit - Hey, have Google made those contact lenses that check a person blood sugar yet? I can't wait to get my hands on a set of those babies.

.... HAAA! Disruptors...

Edit - Theranos. Google glass. 3D TV. New VR.

 

actually, nobody said it worked now. 1+1=2

 

and not Air B&B in NYC where Cumo made it partially illegal to protect the Hotel Industry and thus legal to rip off customers. Liberals always oppose capitalism because they lack the IQ to understand how freedom works. Liberals are so stupid they will oppose all innovations because all innovations harm some workers and some consumers.

 

Well Iron Man is out there talking it up pretty big. I read some headline the other day about him claiming that he will have a fully automated self driving Tesla on the road by - cant find the article - but he is quoted in Fortune Dec 2015 as saying fully self driving Tesla will be on the road on two years. Here is something from the other say with iron Man claiming that all Telsas will be fully self driving from now on -

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ly-autonomous-car-in-new-video-demonstration/

Are you disruptors in Silicon Valley having trouble with parallel parking are you? Ha. Cant you guys catch a google bus to work?

So. Apparently Tesla claims this stuff works. They are jumping from a beta version of a so-called 'autopilot' system that does not work to fully self driving technology. Hmm. Is Iron Man retarded? He does look kind of retarded doesnt he. I agree with Volvo - Tesla is a very dangerous company.

Why was Theranos allowed to sell dangerous technology to an unsuspecting US public and get away with it for so long? It is because the US Government did not want to do anything to harm the value of the big new US company. The US Government did not want to harm the image of new female Mark Zuckerberg - Elizabeth Holmes. The US Government is controlled by the people that own these new criminal Silicon Valley companies and that is why they allowed Theranos to put the public in danger with blood testing technology that did not work - and now the US government and all the governments that it has influence over ( Germany has woken up to itself ) are putting the western public in danger by allowing so-called 'self-driving' Teslas on our public roads when the technology does not work and even if used properly cuts reaction times of drivers in an emergency. Allowing the beta version of Tesla 'autopilot' to be used on public roads is an outrage and the company should be shut down but instead the US Government encourages it. Tesla would not even exist if not for the US Government - it is a virtual SOE. And google control the information on the internet and all you get is PR stories on Tesla. Tesla is a protected darling company.

US wants tesla to be a leadr in self driving technology and that is why it allows the company to get the green light to sell its 'autopilot' vehicles even though the technology is in 'beta' and does not work. The US Government does not even have access to Tesla information on accidents - so Tesla can continue to claim that its vehicle was not at fault even when they clearly are at fault. Apparently the big new US capitalist idea is for the capitalist owned US Government to allow the new capitalists to self regulate. And this is how we get companies like Theranos putting the public in danger with blood testing technology that doesnt work and how we get Tesla 'autopilot' vehicles driving themselves underneath trucks on highways. And we have Uber 'self driving' cars - that have two drivers - driving the wrong way down one way streets. I mean Jesus %$%$ing Christ.

So yeah, we will have self driving Teslas on the road pretty soon - but no they wont work and they will kill people. But Iron Man will tell us that they are safer than humans. And it will probably be a beta version that comes out first so we can expect some bugs - like with Teslas beta 'autopilot'.

[video=youtube;Uctu1e353os]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uctu1e353os[/video]

edit - At least google has had the sense to back out of the 'self driving car' market. Hey, maybe Tesla can make google a self driving google bus so all of the Silicon Valley minions can get to work safer. Self driving Teslas are safer than bus drivers right? Why doesnt Tesla get the government to give them contracts to make self driving school buses so we can fire all the bus drivers? If the technology works then lets test it out on the kiddies first. If Iron Man is confident in the technology then why not make self driving school buses? I reckon that would cause a bit of disruption.

 

so????????1) talking it up does not mean it is working and 2) comparing to other failures is meaningless given that there are 1000 failures for every success. The genius of capitalism is that it encourages trial and error and then huge success. Do you understand?

 

Air B/B is a business that avoids paying its taxes and avoids meeting the regulations that all other accommodation businesses have to meet. Air B/B has an unfair advantage - and why? Does it have an app or something does it? Are these Silicon Valley people retards? Seriously. WTF? How the hell can air B/B get away with not paying taxes and covering the cost of regulation when all of its competitors in the market have to cover these overheads. Silicon Valley retards are just soo clever. We are bamboozled. How do tax a company that has an app?? DEEErrrRRR . Guess there is nothing we can do. What? Disruptors? All these companies are is criminal enterprises that think they will get away with breaking laws because they have the backing of the US government. So clever.. Hey lets make a business that has an app and we will not pay any taxes or obey and laws or regulations and we will have a huge advantage over our competitors that way - and we can call ourselves 'disruptors' - and we will tell our parents to invest in our little start up and guarantee that they get their investment back if the company fails - and we will need a lot of capital to start with to pay all of the lawyers that we are going to need for breaking all these laws that we are going top break. But we have google and corporate media to give us PR and the backing of the US Government - and the big thing is that what we are creating is not so much a business as it is an attack on working conditions of workers of the west.

See %$%$ing uber drivers out of working protections and conditions is not just bad for drivers - it is bad for all workers that earn a wage - and that is the point of Uber. All that money invested and being spent on lawyers to fight national governments is not so much about 'Uber' it is about capitalists breaking the unions once and for all. That is the point here. But you Americans dont seem to get it. We are not like you. In Australia even the majority of conservative voters do not want the government to attack penalty rates or working conditions in any way. We had a video of unionists saying that they will "take ownership of the Australian Labor Party" soon - and the elites better believe it - and it is the CIA that is to blame for trying to Americanize our political system and society. It just wont work. American plebs are very very different. Exceptional. They are an exception. The rest of us would never put up with your nonsense. That is why the political system in Europe is breaking down - and the CIA is doing the same thing to Australia. See the rest of us believe in workers rights - we believe in universal healthcare - we believe in public options. Even if Tesla uses its billions to get leaders like Malcolm Turnbull in their pockets - which wouldnt be hard since he is so utterly pathetic, Tesla wouldnt even have to pay him. He would jump at the chance to lick some American boots - it is never going to last. Your Silicon Valley nonsense "does not pass the pub test" as we say in Australia. ( could you Americans stop with this "doesnt pass the smell test" stuff? It is a disgusting saying. Say pub test. Bar test if you must ) Silicon Valley people are serious retards.

Seriously - imagine Iron Man coming to an Aussie pub and trying to sell us his little Mars colonization plans or his self driving vehicle technology. That would be hilarious. Liberals? HAA! Same with Travis whatever his name is. These Silicon valley retards are like politicians - they are protected. I would tear both of them a new one in a town hall - and most people would. These people are ridiculous.

What innovation? Criminality is not innovation.

[video=youtube;hiNZbcEzogU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiNZbcEzogU[/video]

I just cant wait until Iron Man and Travis whatever his name is liberate us of vehicle ownership.

Self regulation. I dont think so. Get it out of your heads. Its a loser. Dont waste any more time and money on this stuff. And there are governments all over the place trying to fight air b/b. We may as well live in freaking India or Somalia if we are not going to have any regulations to protect the public, workers and consumers. I used to think it was funny that any idiot in a place like India or Pakistan could just use their own car and go out pretending to be a taxi - and now we have freaking Uber doing the same thing here in the west. And we have to put up with freaking tourists in residential areas so criminal air b/b can turn a profit do we? WTF? Plus we actually have hotel industries and we regulate them to protect the public and consumers - why should air b/b have an advantage? Why do Silicon Valley retards think they can get away with being tax dodgers?

 

who cares?????????? In a free country people want to be free to buy what they want to buy. The idea of renting wasted or unused space in your home is brilliant and saves $billions so needs to be encouraged 100%. It would be like somebody inventing a car for half the normal price. This is exactly how our standard of living rises. 1+1=2

 

Hey look, this is something I wrote about air b/b a while ago

TECHIES DEFEATED BY THE REAL WORLD

My new hero is Edwin Acosta because he has taken on the Silicon Valley tech nerds and destroyed them. Edwin Acosta has also won a great battle against this so-called 'shared economy' that ignores civilized laws and regulations. You may have heard that illegal company airbnb is being made to pay taxes and meet the domestic laws and regulations of the nations that it operates in. Airbnb is an idea where regular people rent out their homes to travellers without having to satisfy laws and safety standards that any motel would have to meet. You also get tourists living where they shouldn't be while on holiday and not paying the correct taxes. Thankfully governments have finally started to crack down on the illegal airbnb business model due to public outrage. Governments are reluctant to stand up to these illegal shared economy businesses but with public pressure we can force companies like airbnb and uber to obey our national laws/regulations and force them to pay their taxes. The shared economy is backed by corporate America and this is why governments are afraid to stand up to them. It is up to the public to pressure government into enforcing our laws and what is happening to airbnb is proof that we can do it. These so-called 'Hacker Hostels' are tied in with airbnb and they are illegal. The idea is to fool stupid poor tech nerds into paying to live in an overcrowded residence with a heap of other tech nerds sleeping on bunk beds. It is not legal to just rent a room and then turn it into a hostel for tech nerds just like it is not legal for a citizen to act as a hotel for airbnb or a citizen to pretend they are a taxi for Uber. These shared economy businesses are illegal. Like I said, government doesn't want to make these companies obey laws/regulations or pay taxes so to me Edwin Acosta is a true hero for defeating the Chez JJ.

The Real World
The problem, like so many other problems in the tech world, is that Silicon Valley solutionism just doesn’t transfer that all that well to the real world. In the real world, even like-minded folks can have clashing egos. There’s always dirty dishes to wash and trash to take out. And your neighbors can get irritated—very irritated—by the constant comings and goings of energetic young people, no matter how idealistic their intentions. Which is what happened at Chez JJ.

Edwin Acosta, a 46-year-old government employee, lived below a Chez JJ unit that was being rented out in the San Francisco Castro District. And Acosta didn’t care for his neighbors. He was so bothered by the activity and noise upstairs—where up to 10 residents bunked together at a time—that he filed a series of complaints against the hacker hostel with the city’s planning department. He even wrote letters to Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, where Chez JJ advertised vacancies.

Jade Wang, a 31-year-old neuroscientist who started the Chez JJ hacker hostels, says the house captain—the person in charge of overseeing the residents of the house and various house activities—and tenants did everything they could to appease Acosta. They instituted a shoes-off policy. They bought rugs. It wasn’t enough. Acosta ultimately filed complaints with the city not just for the Castro house but for the other Chez JJ location in San Francisco. (There were three Chez JJ locations in total, two in San Francisco, and one house in Mountain View, Google’s hometown.)

“I filed complaints with numerous agencies in San Francisco after experiencing how their business practices were affecting our community,” Acosta says.

“Upon learning that they had opened another location, I took the initiative to file a similar complaint, because I became equally concerned by how their business practices might impact that community as well.”

-wired.com
I was so happy to read that. I hate these so-called 'techies' with their stupid 'start-ups'. I hate that all news stations now have a 'tech segement' trying to create a false industry around the fact that people buy mobile phones. I hate that America has made a sitcom called Silicon Valley trying to make 'techies' uber cool. I love that normal people can't stand these silicon techies. I love Edwin Acosta.

So the techies of silicon valley are in some trouble. The smart phone industry is exhausted and will only grow slightly in coming years. Most tech companies offer little or no return on investment. Silicon Valley is 99% hype. Twitter is worthless. Tech stocks are being brutalized. Even apple stock has been smashed lately. And now the Hacker Hostels have been defeated. The techies also face liquidity shortages now that they have been exposed as a bunch of nerds that have got nothing.

Apparently these Silicon Valley types that stayed in these Hacker Hostels had terrible bed bugs. The Hacker Hostel captain on one of the Chez JJ sites said that the Hacker Hostel was more like a commune than a hostel.. Indeed. They sound filthier than a hippy commune. Bed bugs? I guess when you get overcrowding you get unsanitary conditions and this is why we have laws and regulations. The techies need to he protected from themselves. Hooray for Edwin Acosta.

So this whole 'techie start-up' craze is in a lot of trouble and hopefully it will be dead soon. It was all hype and capitalists trying to create a false industry for their next offspring. This is another dotcom bubble that is about to burst. The techies are not going to 'change the world' or 'change the way we live'. Certainly not 99% of them anyway. I am so sick of this techie nonsense so I feel relieved. Techies are not going to rule the world. Techies have no good ideas. The stupid Silicon Valley DrWho looking robot that they made to help with policing looks really stupid and I am happy that fewer of these techies at Silicon Valley will be wasting time on nonsense like this.

Are you sick to death of hearing about these techies and their little start ups that are going to change the world and the way we live our lives?

Do you think that Edwin Acosta really played children's songs on repeat all day while he was out to annoy these Silicon Valley tech kids? There are laws about noise pollution so if the Hacker Hostel were telling the truth wouldn't it be Acosta that was being fined and run out of town instead of these techie kids? We do have laws they exist for all of us - even the techies. Why didn't they complain if Acosta was making too much noise?

Have you ever watched the Silicon Valley show? Or did you see that movie? Me either because they look super lame and stupid.

------------

Ha.

[video=youtube;2HWCBmUqB9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWCBmUqB9o[/video]

 

do you have any idea what your point is????

 

Still, as in Paris, UBER in London has cut the income of London Taxi Drivers (who spend years learning the roads in order to pass their test). Of course, what does that matter now that we have a GPS on-board an UBER-car

What matters is the same, once again UBER has taken advantage of the unfairness of hiring part-time drivers who are not paid either the minimum wage or any employment benefits whatsoever. Let's talk about market-incoherence, shall we?

Just how many jobs can we uberize, that is, take the unemployed, give them a job at a cheaper wage than those who are fully employed but threaten to be unemployed because of UBERization? The system of Employment Benefits is under threat for a good number of people who work on their own and in the services-industries.

Unemployed and wanna get screwed - sign-up with UBER ... !

 

why not be honest??interfering with uber is just 1 of 1000 ways a lib soviet want to interfere with the free market because he lacks the IQ to understand how capitalism works.

Imagine 2 countries one of which did everything for the consumer and another which did everything for the worker. Which would starve everyone to death and which would make everyone rich?? 1+1=2

 

I think it has something to do with the importance of regulation.

 

what????????????????