Hillary Clinton did NOT win the popular vote

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by DonQuix, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. DonQuix

    DonQuix Member

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    Now, I'm not saying Donald Trump won that vote. I'm saying it is impossible to know in any meaningful way.

    We will never know how many Trump voters in New York and California decided to stay home because they knew their vote wouldn't make a difference in the Electoral College.

    All I'm saying is, if we decide to play the game in a certain way (i.e. EC rules,) people will assume those are the rules when they play it, and so it would be unfair to do anything other than sticking with those rules all the way.

    Especially since some Democrats have argued EC votes should be changed because Hillary 'won the popular vote!'
     
  2. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

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    Hillary won the popular vote by more than 2.5 million. /thread.
     
  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Trump had to rely on a "rigged" system to win the WH.
     
  4. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except there is no popular vote. Our system uses the Electoral College, in which there is not one single "popular" vote at all, rather there are many smaller elections in the states, and Trump won more of those.

    You can make up all the irrelevant stats you like, but "popular vote" is no more legitimate than the "people wearing red shoes" voting block. We don't use a system that cares about either of those non stats.
     
  5. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

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    What was rigged about the Presidential election? It was Trump that tried to go to court to throw out votes. And Republicans closing poll sites early in some states.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There has always been a popular vote. Popular vote isn't the determiner of who wins but to say there is no popular vote is a flat out lie.
     
  6. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's totally irrelevant to our election, yet some of you are clinging to it like it means anything. it doesn't. No more important than red shoes or handlebar moustaches.
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    It does not matter how many folks abstained from voting because they reside in incorrigibly Red or Blue states, didn't like either candidate, or just don't bother to vote for a multiplicity of reasons, With the presidential election results now certified in all 50 states and Washington, D.C., Clinton won a total of 65,844,610 votes, and Trump 62,979,636. (Other candidates received 7,804,213 votes.)

    The determinant, of course, is Trump's receiving 304 electoral votes, in excess of the requisite 270.
     
  8. Cdnpoli

    Cdnpoli Banned

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    So in one post you say there is no popular vote and in this post you call it totally irrelevant. You don't seem to be consistent here. Does it exist or not?
     
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    True. Trump had to rely on a system rigged to give less populated states more voting power than more populated states.
     
  10. 17thAndK

    17thAndK New Member

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  11. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    He did repeatedly insist that the election was "rigged!", the electoral college system a "disaster!" and he has claimed that "millions!" of illegal votes were cast.

    Perhaps, as POTUS, he will demand an inquiry to expose the specifics of the perfidy he cited.
     
  12. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does not exist in our system, as in not counted..has no bearing..doesn't matter one iota. At the same time this means irrelevant. Im very, very consistent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, sorry that the Whole Nation doesn't have to bend to the will of California.

    That pesky United "States"....
     
  13. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, don't think so.
    The entire nation shouldn't have to live by Californias rules. If they want to usher in Illegal invaders, and Tax Cow farts...that's their choice, they can keep it and their ideas to themselves.
    All states have a voice in the system we have.
     
  14. DonQuix

    DonQuix Member

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    Even though a national popular vote would be more precisely fair, I'm still of two minds whether it's overall a good idea.

    In a 50/50 country, a benefit of the Electoral College is that it makes it clear who has won, most of the time. Imagine having the 2000 Florida recount mess, on a national scale, every few elections. (For those who are old enough to remember it.)

    A national popular vote would also have major benefits (e.g. getting rid of the disproportionate attention paid to swing states.) I would like to hear others chiming in.
     
  15. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Canks still lost the election badly. She was supposed to be a sure shot-lefties said so.
     
  16. 17thAndK

    17thAndK New Member

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    Unfortunately the states where nobody lives have more voice than the rest. Houston, we have a problem. Twice in sixteen years is simply too much.
     
  17. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So amend the constitution. The fact that Republicans have their strongest numbers since the civil war wont help though. ;)
     
  18. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    The popular vote has no official significance, but, as a democratic metric, is of unique value.

    It is the ultimate poll of presidential preference, vastly surpassing all public opinion surveys in sample size, truthfulness of response, and participation. (No sampling margin of error in "likely to vote" estimations whatsoever.)

    Clinton won a total of 65,844,610 votes, and Trump 62,979,636. That reality is irrelevant to the election, but is a significant indicator of public sentiment.
     
  19. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    Popular vote = "....two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."

    Thank God for an election system where every State matters and not just a handful...
     
    OldSoldier likes this.
  20. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    It should teach Democrats that being more popular with the American people (having won their vote in six of the past seven elections) is not enough to win presidential elections.

    The Party's ignoring the plight of white males without college degrees cost it dearly in states where it had enjoyed solid support back when there were high-paying blue-collar jobs and unions upheld their interests.

    Will Trump keep his promises to them or will they end up feeling like TrumpĀ® U alumni?

    We'll find out.
     
  21. CrankyPant

    CrankyPant New Member

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    It means something to Donald Trump, otherwise he wouldn't keep carping about how he would have won the popular vote if it wasn't for those millions of (imaginary) people who voted illegally for Hillary Clinton.
    And what it does mean is that the majority of voters went for Hillary Clinton, by a large margin.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, that is fact... Trump won the electoral vote, that is also fact
     
  23. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's meaningless. The Nation doesn't follow the lead of overpopulated California. The majority of states and counties went to Trump, and this is how it works.


    You guys are making a case that is akin to saying one football team won 3 of the 4 quarters of the game and should get the title....ignoring that this isn't the system, and one team needs to have a higher final score.

    Popular vote is totally, absolutely irrelevant.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sure seems to matter to Trump supporters, they lost the popular vote, time to get over it... you won the Presidency, be happy
     
  25. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump supporters are not the ones keeping this "popular vote" business around. It's your side thinking it has any relevance at all other than a historians interest. How about stop reminding us that Hillary won this "no-prize"?
     

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