Is Putin really a bad guy? 88% of Russians like Putin.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Matthewthf, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This website actually has a debate on if Putin is a dictatorship. The left in America says he is but they lie about anything if it fits their agenda.
    http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-vl...tin-a-dictator

    The people that say he is not actually have some interesting reasons behind their answers:

    It seems to me if 88% of Russians like him than he is not all that bad. The left likes to paint a different picture of Putin. Is he a dictator? Maybe but I don't see him as 100% evil. So why can't we have good relations with him? Can anybody on the left give me one good reason why we have to be against Russia? There was no evidence they hacked the elections just incase anybody throws that one out there.

    What does everybody really think of Putin?
     
  2. AnnaNoblesse

    AnnaNoblesse New Member

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    I'm no authority on Russia and Putin but I'm going to toss in my opinion anyway. I've been to Russia twice in the last five years and I have a hard time believing he's that popular. However I do believe a survey would find him that popular because Russian people tend to show support for their leader even when they don't really support him. This is because in Russia they see the leader as a reflection of their country. If their leader is seen as weak and divisive then they believe it makes Russia appear weak and divisive.

    Russia would never have a situation like we have in America where half the population shows no support for the newly elected president. In Russia they get behind the president regardless of their personal doubts about him. A united people shows strength.

    Now in private it's a different matter. I think many Russians have serious doubts about Putin.

    One other issue is Russians don't have the same free speech when it comes to criticizing their government. In Russia you can say anything to anyone and not fear being sued. Their libel laws are pretty much non existent. One exception! Don't criticize Putin or the government! You'll find yourself out of a job and if you really get carried away in your criticism you'll find yourself in jail or missing.
     
  3. AnnaNoblesse

    AnnaNoblesse New Member

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    And let's be real. Not even the world's most loved leaders have 88% approval ratings unless the survey is rigged.

    Survey question: Check appropriate box.

    Do you approve of Putin:
    # Yes, he is awesome.
    # No, I wish to move to Siberia.
     
  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    OP wrote: Is Putin really a bad guy? 88% of Russians like Putin.

    Do they have any choice?
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    By the logic suggested, Kim Jong Un must be a nice guy.

    He executes people with an anti-aircraft weapon but his heart's in the right place.

    http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/how-popular-is-kim-jong-un/

    [​IMG].

    https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/
     
  6. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I was there in Breznev's time. It was the same.

    Russians love a strong leader. There is no real understanding of the concept of democracy, freedom or individual rights in Russian culture.

    Russia has away been either a monarchy, a dictatorship or an oligopoly ruled by a tiny elite. Which is what it is now. There is no understanding of the concept of free speech.

    In a country where you go to jail for saying the wrong thing, polls on the popularity of the leader are meaningless.

    The OP's comments are idiotic in the extreme.

    Not only does he show no understanding of the culture he claims to be talking about, he is trying to recast the entire thing through the narrow and parochial lens of American domestic politics.

    You don't get much more narrow minded and backward than that.
     
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Wow! You and I were waiting to kill each other with nukes. Well I just want you to know I didn't appreciate that. :D

    Another factor is the media. Like Trump, Putin attacks the free press. Controlling and discrediting the press [now media] is the key to tyranny. The people can't object to what they don't know.

    http://www.newsweek.com/putin-assault-russia-free-press-continues-apace-461571

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump argue that the Fed Government needs to control the internet to fight terrorism. It would be a logical step in subverting the Constitution.
     
  8. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    I LURV him to bits for his strength of leadership, he makes the has-beens Obama and Hillary look like amateurs..:)
     
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    What specific actions of his do you admire? Beyond talking tough and not wearing a shirt, why do you perceive him as strong?

    Did you admire it when he had the reporter assassinated using Plutonium?
     
  10. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    Putin is an enemy of socialists and progressives in general. Cheer up commies though, he is barely hanging on, he had to centralize Russian power to keep it so far, that it is not feasible long term. Then you can deport people to Siberia again.
     
  11. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    The reporter was a proven traitor so if (and it's just an "if") Putin ordered the assassination it speaks volumes for his love of Russia and his tremendous strength..:)
    Anyway when Obama ordered the assassination of Bin Laden nobody batted an eye..:)
     
  12. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    But Tom, we are a society where you can go to jail for saying the wrong thing - and I am not talking about screaming "fire!" in a theatre kind of things. The US is an exception in the occident in the sense that it doesn't as of yet have laws about denying the Holocaust, for exemple, but you can be sure "good people" are working on it.

    In any regime, you'll always have an elite that will try to enforce on us their own vision of what they consider "the ennemy". It's true in the US and it's true in Russia. I don't give in into this codswallop myself.
     
  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    So you don't believe in law and order? You know, the police, the courts, jails?

    You can't see the difference between a military strike to get the world's most wanted terrorist, and poisoning a reporter? You can't be serious.
     
  14. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    "Give me 26 lead soldiers and I will conquer the world"- Benjamin Franklin referring to the letters on a printing press.
    "I fear four hostile newspapers more than a thousand bayonets"- Napoleon Bonaparte


    So the Russian journalist who was badmouthing Putin was firing words rather than bullets and was regarded as an enemy of the state just as an enemy soldier firing real bullets..:)
     
  15. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    So the answer is no, you don't support the rule of law. You think dissent should be met with assassination. And essentially you support the tactics of despots and tyrants. Well, I can see why we don't agree on much.
     
  16. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Every case is different, the journalist was badmouthing Putin from his bolt-hole in Britain, so either Vlad or the Russki secret service decided to shut him up, it's none of our business anyway..:)
     
  17. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    This is so true for many of our Us friends on this board, unfortunately. In this respect I can speak for European affairs, and the unbelieveable nonsense I read over and over again makes me wonder whether some people here have any basic knowledge at all and why so many seem to be unable not to look at things through their Us glasses.
    However, point this out or criticize them (in a mature way) and you'll get flack for days.

    Back on topic, please.
     
  18. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    That is false on its face.

    Of course, you're welcome to try and prove that claim.

    And, of course, if what you say is true, you'd go to jail for doing it.
     
  19. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    So true.

    So many Americans know nothing about the world in general. What little they do know comes from stereotypes and Hollywood movies. Only one American in five even holds a passport.

    The far right here is a constant stream of extreme parochial nonsense and xenophobia.

    But right wing media makes a lot of money by holding up a mirror to these people's prejudices and ignorance.

    As you see every day now, many Trumpsters are ignorant and proud of it.
     
  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NO, they have no choice...just like in America with the new President, if you don't bow and worship and march in step you are put on an Enemies List.
     
  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Lib's believe obama is great because he has a good approval rating. They must love Putin.
     
  22. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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  23. aenigma

    aenigma Well-Known Member

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    in germany insulting a foreign ruler is not allowed either(remember the erdogan song)
    in belgium insulting the royal house is a crime to, how is that any difference from going to jail by insulting putin in russia ?
    and i'm pretty sure you get arrested for insulting the cops, denial of the holocaust and so on to atleast you do here
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    But 95% of Ukrainians hate him, and Poland and the Baltic states are afraid of him. Russia is and always has been a quite nationalistic country and Putin is playing to that.
     
  25. CrankyPant

    CrankyPant New Member

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    It wasn't one journalist, it was dozens.
    Here in America, our leaders don't get to assassinate journalists just because they don't like their writings. Although I'm sure that the incredibly thin-skinned Trump would love to change that.
    Putin is KGB, can't be trusted as far as you can throw him. Sadly, he seems to be making Donald Trump into his useful idiot.
     

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