Our lame duck president decides to cause problems for Israel

Every country in the world more or less has condemned even the hint of non-Muslims being allowed to pray on the Temple Mount. This is against international freedom of religion laws and history.

The UNESCO just passed a resolutions supported by Israels so called allies denying Jewish right to even the Western Wall. Similar resolutions passed in the Un deny the fathers of Judaisms tombs in Hebron amongst others.

Dershowitz has been blind to the actions of his buddies on the left towards Jews and Israel for decades. Apologist IMO while many may disagree. There was enough information about Obama before the first election to understand his hostility towards Jews and Israel. His preacher was a racist- anti American jew hater. His friends supported terrorism against Israeli civilians. Again all easily found online.
He has also ignored the Jewish legal right to the WB because of his strong objection to settlements.

 

UN has no legal right to define nations borders, not to impose their will without following international law.
The UN Charter is clear Israels legal rights under the Mandate are enshrined in international law.

So far I have never seen a legal international document which gives the Palestinians as a nation the right to the land.
Can anyone give me one?

Any sanctions would be false, hopefully the UN run by tyrannies will fall soon anyways. It does nothing good in the world and props up supports all the evil of the world. The things their soldiers and officials have been caught doing is insane. Human Rights Council heads include Qatar, Saudi and Even Syria. Iran on the womens rights council. You cant make this stuff up. Even countries which support Islamic Terror sitting on Anti-Terror Committees.


Nationalism is fighting back against the Globalist farce. We are seeing it in most free nations.

 

Actually maps of what was considered Jerusalem changed throughout history.
Suppose Jerusalem mentioned hundreds of times in Jewish religious text is also new?
Bethlehem was part of Jerusalem at one point last century.

Not sure where you speak of be more specific. Each area has its own stories and history.

JEWS HAVE BEEN THE MAJORITY RELIGION MOSTLY FOR 200 YEARS AND MAJORITY FOR 150. I am all for giving Palestinians control of their villages on the border of Jerusalem. Although NEARLY ALL THE PALESTINIANS I KNOW WHO LIVE THERE PREFER TO STAY INSIDE ISRAEL.

I think the local population should have a say privately so noone can kill them if they chose Israel.

You are being dishonest by ignoring the fact that the UN has denied any Jew the right to live in more than Greater Jerusalem. including areas Jews have lived in continuously for thousands of years. The latest resolution denies Israels right to the Western Wall or Old City which the Jews rebuilt and made into what it is today. It was ignored by the rest of the world for centuries.

If my family own property next to the old city from 1880s I only have right to it if I am not born Jewish. That is disgusting. This is what you seem to support. no Jewish property rights? Or do you support private rights but not Israeli national rights?


DONT TELL ME WHAT I CALL JERUSALEM. CITIES CHANGE CONTINOUSLY MOST SURPRISINGLY GROW RATHER THAN SHRINK. COMMON SENSE.

 

Nice try but after being given guns, land, control over their population and education system IT WAS ALL USED TO ATTACK ISRAEL AND BRAINWASH THE GENERATION NOW GOING AROUND STABBING ISRAELI CIVILIANS AS THEIR GOAL IN LIFE. Oslo tracks this very clearly. I warned about this 3 years ago and was laughed at. within months stabbing began. It was all set up and planned by their leader Abbas just as Arafat planned the Oslo War (2nd intifada) months before it began. The same week as Oslo Arafat is shown on camera comparing the deal to a deal the Muslims made with Jews in history before wiping them out.

NAME ONE THING IN OSLO THEY AGREED TO AND FOLLOWED UP WITH?
THERE IS NOTHING THEY HAVE EVER DONE FOR PEACE ONLY TO REACH THEIR AIM OF ISRAELS DESTRUCTION. THERE IS NO REAL EVIDENCE OTHERWISE.

Oh and they openly admit this.

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No it still applies today. Read UN Charter article 80. Israels legal right from the Mandate did not just disappear. It is still the prime legal source for the land.

You sound like the Canadian PM. Its 2015 so I dont need to explain myself.

 

the Mandate expired in 1948, and if Israel tries to annex any more of the West Bank and/or continues expanding settlements, they will eventually face international sanctions.

and I will gladly comply.

 

Does this include private property rights??


So you are unable to give any legal document in international which gives the Palestinians as a nation the right to the land but you still support stealing private Jewish property in the name of peace? Are you from Europe or the middle east by chance? maybe you have seen this before when the majority of the Jewish descendent's of Israeli today were oppressed by either group?

STILL WAITING FOR ANY INTERNATIONAL DOCUMENT GIVING THE PALESTINIANS THE LAND.
RES 242 not mention of Palestinians or a new nation to be created. 242 basis for Oslo again no Palestinian state.

As you have made clear different laws for Jews is ok by you and you would even support it.
Suppose you consider yourself a liberal. maybe Progressive?

 

I am not the topic of this thread.

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International law says its illegal to build civilians settlements on confiscated private property in Occupied Territory.

The Israeli Supreme Court has confirmed this, time and time again.

 

We should never have been running interference for Israel on UN resolutions that condemn its activities in the first place. If Israel does not want to see these resolutions at its doorstep, it needs to act in such a way as to ensure they have enough allies to vote it down, rather than expecting big Brother to veto them. These do not have any force so their safety is not compromised by passage. This resolution reflects the vast majority of member state opinions on these settlments. Why try to shut them up so that Israel is not embarrassed? Obama did the right thing.

 

you understand that some here will accuse the bolded comments as being "anti-Semitic".

 

Its one hell of a stretch but that's life in this forum. this position is actually pretty tame. I am not discussing Jews at all. I am not advocating the dismantling of the state of Israel or the use of violence to accomplish any Palestinian goals. I am saying this resolution condemning settlements should not be bottled up any longer under the threat of American veto. Let the world express its views and use the UN as its vehicle. None of this moves a single Israeli tank, nor bombs a Jewish school, nor forces a change in Israeli policy. Its an expression of discontent and outrage that Israel continues to ignore international pleas on these settlements.

We didn't even vote for the resolution.

 

So you refused to answer my questions but see no problem with denying private Jewish property rights.

This was not about the government taking land but private Jewish ownership from 150 years ago.
You seem to be denying Jewish Private property rights but the opposite with Arabs?

land not occupied, and I support your claims on private ownership. Why do you repeat yourself when I have answered you already?

 

if a Jew legally buys property he has the right to live on that property.

 

the place for opinions is the General Assembly. The place for facts and law is the SCouncil. This resolution has no basis in historical accuracy, international law, nor agreements which most of the nations in the Security Council signed onto and now broke.

Russia and China also have their mini-states they support in the UN.

 

the International Court of Justice and the Israeli Supreme Court all agree that the West Bank is under Israeli Occupation and all settlements built on confiscated private land, are illegal.

 

I understand that is your view. My view is that is it impossible to separate fact and law, from opinion on what is fact and law. The opinions on what is fact and law that matter are, coincidentally the same number as members on that council. This delineation your describe, is incredibly naïve and totally impractical and always has been.

I am disinterested in what Russia and China do with respect to their mini-states and their use of the veto to promote their interests. They do not reflect me in any way, as my government's use does, and they are not viewed as one the greatest promoters of free expression and democratic ideals in the UN. Our use of the veto needs to be very sparing. That means when concrete interests are seriously threatened, not embarrassed into a giant pout..

 

Why can't Obama be Israel's lapdog, like previous presidents?

 

Enough with the narrative.

What I wrote is not view but facts from the UN website.
International laws were mostly created upon agreement. Those which joined agreed.

I AM STILL WAITING FOR ANY LEGAL INTERNATIONAL DOCUMENT WHICH GIVES THE PALESTINIANS AS A NATION THE RIGHT TO THE LAND.

I think its naive to ignore the fact that Arabs of the land have been openly calling for and carrying out massacres against they Jews on the land. Naive to ignore the fact that the UN is controlled by the worst nations in the world.

Sadly the new Left narrative attitude dismisses all facts they dont support.

Documentation from the League of Nations and UN during debates on the resolutions show very clearly what was discussed, what others tries to push through and what passed.
Details are the important factor when it comes to laws. and there seems to be nothing supporting the other side accept this false claim of geneva convention.

SINCE 1917 BALFOUR UNTIL THE 80S WITH EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT ON THIS ISSUE AND CONFLICT THE BRITISH AND US HISTORICAL RECORDS CLEARLY SHOW THAT I AM AGREEING WITH THEM. I include those who wrote Balfour/Mandate/Res 181/UN Charter/Un res 242.........

 

the United Nations recognizes the State of Palestine.

 

Just admit there is no international legal document which gives the Palestinians as a nation the right to the land.

is that all you can answer?

 

Guess who decides which issues are deemed factual and law based and thus are properly heard by the UN Security Counsel? Why the very body that disagrees with your assessment. Do you know why? Its because law is, and always will be, an extension of politics in every institution or nation on this planet and the UN is no different.

As long as humans are deciding what constitutes a fact or legal based inquiry, the process will be a subjective one, full of ambiguity and bias. That is why expecting a clear delineated line on what the Security Counsel should or should not decide is naïve.

the case you are making, is undoubtedly one that the security counsel has heard before, has wrestled with, and has discarded and because they are the experts, and the deciders in their law , their opinion on the facts and the law matters much more than yours or Israel's. The only question here is what should Obama do, when this resolution resurfaces to be debated by the security counsel. He decided not to outright oppose this resolution but bargain for some more balanced wording regarding shared blame for the violence and a call for Palestinians to condemn terrorism, and then stand aside rather than run interference for so that no resolutions that criticize Israeli settlement behavior ever get passed.

I think it a wise and proper response to the resolution. Israel has to grow up, stop hiding behind Lady Liberty's skirt, and fight its own diplomatic battles.

 

Experts? A group of nations half of them tyrannies who decide what is real and what laws can be thrown out based on mostly political interests. Really healthy place for the laws of Humanity to be created. When you have countries like Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Qatar often deciding what is morally right or wrong and who is ok to murder and who isnt things are not exactly based on facts and laws. They decide freedom of speech, religion, women and LGBT rights....... Are you really fine with these nations deciding your fate??

is it the hatred of Israel which blinds people to the evil of the UN in nearly every aspect?

It not me its top legal experts on the subject who show the legal status of the territories. Gautier thesis would be the best to read if you can find a copy. 1400 or so pages if I remember correctly .

Jaques Gautier, Hertz, Rostow, Stone and a whole list of others.

the people who wrote the UN Charter, Res 242 and other parts of the legal parts of the conflict.

not nobodies like me.

Since you are so sure indulge me NAME THE INTERNATIONAL LEGAL DOCUMENT WHICH GIVES THE PALESTINIANS AS A NATION THE RIGHT TO THE LAND?

The UN is ignoring the biggest genocides of this century right now, their own officials have been caught, raping, pillaging, stealing, supporting terrorism and a whole list of criminal acts from top to bottom.

 

These are two separate items.

(1) The International Court of Justice and the Israeli Supreme Court both agree that the West Bank is under Israeli control. That's a fact.

(2) You contend that settlements built on confiscated private land are illegal. For the time being, let's say that this statement is correct. (I'm not sure that it is, but for the sake of argument, let's say that it is). Even so, you must recognize and acknowledge that any application of this statement hinges on what you mean by "confiscated private land". I can assure you that what the Israelis and Palestinians consider confiscated private land are two different things.

Nope. No such state.

 

Trump got it right


The anti-Semitic Mad Duck screwed the pooch, again.

 

"The irony is that Obama turned out pretty much like you'd expect a stoner raised by Communists with no business experience to turn out."

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/815560290381266944

 

The US has given more to Israel than to anyone. President Obama approved the 'gift' of 35 billion to Israel, but Netanyahu wanted 45 billion. Then he calls Obama names and spits in his face. Screw you Netanyahu.