Should a 'he' be called a 'she' if they still have a penis?

Are you really playing word games with "asked" or "answered"? I don't see how any question that can be asked intelligently can't be answered that way too. The point is that all elements of that question can be taken independently of anything wider.

That's not a problem with the question or answer though, it's a problem with surrounding elements and irrelevant politicking.

That there isn't the implicit aggressiveness and threat in an individual preferring to identity themselves are "he" or "she" that often exists in someone else calling a person n*gg*r.

 

Obviously if anyone's doing that it's you.

So what?

Yes, but not intelligently in the present case, which is the point.

They are decidedly relevant as well.

As you said, it's about the intent more than the words, and in both cases the intent is maleficent; and what made (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) baiting important to those other than the baiter and the baited is the same thing that makes gender baiting similarly important: the baiter had or has the approbation of the "right people".

 

What you call people often only has meaningful significance to you and them. What you should do is not unnecessarily call people something that they object to being called.

Unless you goal is to create conflict.



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You're "morals" want you to injure someone? You are in no way helping them by calling them something they prefer not to be called. Just injury. Twisted "morals" some of you christians have.

 

Aww! Little Johnny got his feelings injured by science. Isn't that ashame. He should get a safe space so that mean ol' science can't hurt him.

 

Injure? Good one. Please show me where in the US Constitution or in any state law it says people have the right not to be offended?

People need to get over themselves. We have far too many people in the world today who roll out of bed in the morning just looking for a reason to feel offended because they think the world revolves around them.

There is no right to be offended in the constitution but there is a right to free speech under the first amendment. The transgender crowd demanding other people use certain words when they speak is a clear violation of this right.

If mankind's future holds nothing but more and more of this inane, insane, ridiculous, political correctness then I say the sooner the aliens arrive and put us all out of our misery when they blow up the entire planet with their death ray, the better.

 

A right is something you are owed or due. The constitution does not include a promise we will not offend each other. But there are other authorities that recommend we not offend each other unnecessarily.

There's that one about respecting others as you would have them respect you.



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Well unlike the totalitarians that make up the transgender rights crowd, I would never expect that others should allow me to force them to deny reality or dictate their words for them.

 

I doubt whoever you are interacting with is asking you to deny they have or do not have a penis. More likely they are just saying they would prefer you address them according to their gender identity.

Their gender identity is as real as any other title. We call a person doctor out of respect for a standard that exists only by agreement. Calling the next person her, even if they have a penis, seems to be an accommodation that doesn't cost us anything more.

With all the crap that's going on in the world right now, refusing your neighbor that simple accommodation seems petty. Seems to me there are more important things in which we could be investing our efforts.



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I did not mention the constitution, you have the right to be a judgmental (*)(*)(*)(*)(*), others have the right to mock you for said behavior. If your morals force you to purposely hurt others then you have no morals.

 

So if a transgender person demands that I use a pronoun like zie, zir or hir and I don't because I think it's a made up word that's part of a political agenda that the majority of society is not on board with that means I'm a "judgemental *******" but there's nothing at all wrong with the transgender person trying to dictate the words someone else uses right?

 

Uses to address them? Yes, if you insist on sticking a label on someone that they object to you are judging them. I don't see the purpose in being judgemental here.

All words are made up. The name Fred is made up. Some people prefer Friedrich. But if you introduced yourself as Fred, I'd call you Fred. Even if the majority of society liked Friedrich better.




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I refuse to have my speech dictated by a fringe element of society with a political agenda. I think you'll find out pretty soon that I'm in the mainstream of thought as far as this issue goes. If you think that's judegmental that your judgement call.

Yes all words are made up but not all words are accepted by the majority of society. The new pronouns the trans crowd wants everyone to use have not and will never be accepted by the majority of society.

It's as if all you have to do now is be PC And tell a few sad stories about how tough life is for trans people so everyone starts felling bad for them and poof, the rights and concerns of everyone else just disappear into thin air.

 

Why does it matter what others do if it only pertains to themselves?

I've never understood the superiority you people believe you have when it comes to others.

If you have such issue referring to somoene in a manner that they deem appropriate - maybe try not forcing them to see your prospective instead? What do you think is accomplished by calling a transgender woman a man?

Just because you don't understand or think it is perverse is irrelevant - many people believe the same about religious people, they just keep it to themselves. You should try it.

 

So you simply calling someone what they prefer to be called - or most likely going out of your way to call them what you feel is appropriate - is having your speech dictated... Ok

Need a safe space?

 

If it's their name I'll call them by that whatever it is out of respect. If it's a word they're telling me is part of the English language and I know it's not then yes that is an attempt to dictate my speech and I won't have it. That may be no big deal for you since you adhere to the same political agenda of those trying to dictate speech but for the rest of us it's actually quite insulting.

You asked me if I need a safe space? What about these people who feel they have the right to make up their own words and demand everyone else refer to them with these words? What's going to happen if people refuse to do it? Are they going to die? Sounds to me like they're the ones who need safe spaces.

 

No one asks you to feel bad for that person. But if you insist on sticking a label on them that they object to... you're judging them. There is no ambiguity there.

If you know that label offends them, you are choosing to offend them. That you refuse to not offend people is your call. That you do it for no other reason than because you wish to... I don't understand that. I don't agree most people respect that choice.



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What label did I say I insisted on sticking on them? All I have said so far is that I refuse to use made up words that are not part of the English language. I recognize two gender pronouns, he and she. I'll call them either of those if they wish but I won't say zir, zie, hir, etc etc I'm not going out of my way to offend anyone by refusing to use words that are not part of the English language. They are the ones being offensive by expecting others to use those words and then castigating them if they don't.

 

There is a well-known phrase for this including used by such people themselves who dress and act as a woman, had a boob job, but still male genitals, a phrase used for decades and again by themselves. However some time ago I was informed this terminology/pronoun may not be posted on the forum because some LGTB organizations don't like that word - providing a link to Wiki stating their objection.

So at some levels, it does not matter what you think they should be called or even what they themselves want to be called, but rather what some self-annointed organization demands they and you refer to them/themselves as.

 

The English language isn't static and there is no definitive authority that regulates what are official or unofficial words. Dictionary publishers will be the first to tell you they only document usage, no one regulates it.

If a person prefers to be called 'he' say he — it doesn't cost you anything to accommodate them. If you insist on sticking a 'she' label on them despite their request... that's your choice.

If they tell you it offends them, you know you are being offensive. Again, your choice.

For what it's worth, I'm not familiar with zir or zie. Sounds interesting though. I appreciate your sharing those new and possibly useful expressions with me.



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Everything must pass a politically correct litmus test or it is not allowed.

 

Strange, here I thought the OP was about calling a trans person the gender you identify them as vs what they identify themselves as. You are the first person to bring up the new pronouns.

How about you just not judge. Too difficult?

 

I'm sorry but reality and truth are objective not subjective. Is that too difficult for you to wrap your mind around?

 

I agree, but what good comes out of you calling someone a female that is a post operative male?
Besides you patting yourself on the back that the evil PC police didn't control your words of course...

 

My intention is to not hurt them. However science dictates that I call them by their sex.