Most Europeans want to STOP migration from Muslim countries, study finds

OK … sorry!

This can only come from the inner of Islam but therefor we must give them a chance to do it, means stop supporting bloody regimes who prevents it, because stone age Islam backed their power!

Difficult is that there is not only 1 Islam confession, but 2 major confession and some minor one. These confessions are in deep conflict to each other, for example Sunni vs. Shiite!
There are still more moderate confessions like the Alewi but they are fought by the big one above as evil! Complicated situation…
One key element to start a reformation is the secularization in the Islamic states on the globe.

The origins are of course different between Christian and this is also caused to circumstances too. But Christians were and became same sort of violent too as you know. Also is the complete background of Christian faith very questionable. I will not say that Jesus did not exist or so, but what then followed and what we are taught as religion is different. In short as example: Was there really only 4 evangelists? Certainly not, and the content is also not so credible, since long after Christ was written.

Agreed! Kemal Attatuerk has enforced secularization and this measure is an important instrument for reforming Islam. And yes, Erdogan is going to abolish this, apart from his other dictatorial intentions!

False .... of the approximately 1 million Muslim refugees are about half Sunni = Arabs and Kurds. The rest is Shiite and Alewi!
No Alewi and Shiite is a member of Al Qaeda or ISIS, as they are exclusively Sunni and all Shiite and Alewi hate as much as Christians!

Admittedly, there is also a need for improvement in Germany. The case of the assassin in berlin shows the failure of the systems unfortunately clearly, because the assassination was something of avoidable, there must be consequences!

Ultimately it is about humanity and there we Germans have a lot to do. Not only did we start the Second World War with all the misery and the crime, millions of Germans were then victims of flight and expulsion and were dependent on the Mithlife of the remaining German and other countries!
I have no problem to pick up a Syrian family that escaped from Assad and ISIS and they can live here in safety .... but they have our laws, rules and values to respect and obey.

Likewise, it is simply fact that the West is heavily guilty of the misery in Syria and Libya! Either you can get out of the turmoil of the spring of spring, or you can support the opposition in all its consequences, and help you further after the regime is thrown off. We did neither the one nor the other, but some BS in between, and thus the misery grew even, which caused the refugee wave!

Agreed!

Venezuela is no US friend … and things can change drastic, also the need of oil in the ME too!
For rest agreed!

As shown was Iran on best way to become a full democratic country but because the elected President chose wrong enemy, he was eliminated and replaced by the Shah regime by the CIA.
Of course are minorities backend and guarded by all dictators and you a have a bunch of examples for it … Iraq with Saddam backing Christians and Sunni minority who backed him. Syria and Assad who backs Shiite, Alewi and Christians and who back him. That these minorities don’t tell bad about the dictators is normal …
And I don’t defend Mullah regime in Iran, but you have to understand that they were the rat pipers of their time who organized the opposition against the Shah, due to fact that Shah had fears to intervene in the Mosques to heavy, but no problem to jail and torture people who demanded freedom of speech and democratic rights!

 

Here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/01/22/yes-the-bible-does-say-to-kill-infidels/ Stoning to death? Who'da thunk it?
Read the Bible for yourself, because despite your 'Catholic' credentials, you clearly haven't done.

 

Segregation in places of worship is almost a universal tendency. In Hindu temples, men and women sit in separate areas, for example, men to the right women to the left. The same is true in Sikh temples. Hindu and Sikh women cover their head when entering into a temple. You will never find a Hindu or Sikh women wearing shorts or miniskirt to a temple.

Similarly, in most churches around the world, women dress modestly, and sit in a designated area. In the time of Jesus, women had a designated area in the synagogue. In the Temple proper the females occupied, according to Jewish tradition, only a raised gallery along three sides of the court. They were allowed to observe the ceremonies but never to participate in them.

The phenomenon of men and women sitting together intermixed in the pews of a Catholic or Protestant Church is very modern concept that was definitely not practiced by Jesus or his disciples.

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Cor. 14:34-35)

But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. (1 Cor. 11:5-6)

 

Fair enough, however I don't have the time to give you a lesson, but you can get started here:


Female Genital Mutilation here:
- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Female_Genital_Mutilation

Death to homosexuals:
- https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Homosexuality

Death to nonbelievers/apostates
- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Apostasy

Suicide and Martyrdom
- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Shahid

Death for adultery
- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Stoning

 

Well, isn't he? No, actually, anyone who thinks this is not a Catholic. I'd be surprised if you could show us that very many sane Poles think that the Pope is a god.

 

Only a mindless zombie would not want to limit access.

 

I live in the most Catholic country in Europe and I can assure you nobody is told how to do anything. Women do not cover their heads, or at least they are not told to.... remaining silent in a holy place is simply out of respect, like in a theatre. Lowest rate of violence against women in Europe - 87,5% identify as Roman Catholic.

For comparison:

 

Hmmm Wikipedia as I thought. No real research into the facts.

Btw, let's read what the Bible says about these issues:

Punishment for adultery is death (Lev. 20:10)

Homosexuality is punishable with death (Lev. 20:13)

Rape encouraged and practiced in Bible
http://www.evilbible.com/evil-bible-home-page/rape-in-the-bible/

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deut. 22:28-29)

Bible says to kill a rape victim if she did not scream for help (ibid. verses 23-24)

There are many other things in the Bible, such as God commanding to kill babies and children, killing women that are not virgins but taking virgin women as captives and raping them.

Jesus himself said: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

Jesus told his disciples to sell their clothes and buy swords (Luke 22:36)

If you can answer these points I will gladly answer yours. After all Bible was written before the Quran, and more people in the world believe in the Bible than in the Quran.

 

Be fair. Pedophiles are represented in the priesthood in roughly the same proportion as they are in society at large. Of course the number should be zero, but it's hysterical and defamatory to claim that child abuse is part of Catholic ideology. You need to apologize to the catholics on the forum for your remark, and I ask the mods to force you to do so.

 

ISIS would consider these "fellow" Muslims apostates, not followers of the true faith. The Koran is all about killing apostates, nothing controversial there.

 

If catholic women don't cover their heads, that doesn't mean their Bible doesn't command it. What can I do if Catholics don't follow their own scripture? That just means that Catholics are hypocrites who are selective about what rules they want to follow from their religion.

Next you said that remaining silent in a holy place is only for respect, like in theaters. But the context of the Bible verses I quoted are not about respect.

The Bible says that men are allowed to speak in the church but women have to remain silent. If a woman wants to ask something she has to ask her husband, she is not allowed to speak in the church.

The Bible (New Testament) says that if a woman doesn't cover her head when she prays, she has to shave her head:

But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved.
For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. (1 Corinthians chapter 11: verse 6)

I guess all Catholic women have to shave their heads now and go bald

 

Sorry, all the Wiki links have verbatim quotations from the Quran, citations and are reinforced by scholars. The fact that you have disregarded this indicates that you have superficial research skills.

Sorry again. I need you to provide me with verbatim links as I did with the Quran. So I can read them for myself.

 

Hmmm how funny that you want LINKS to quotes from the Bible. Very sad day when someone asks for a "link" from a quote from the Bible. It shows how weak you are academically, perhaps never even went to college.

As for wikipedia quotes, those were not quotes of Qur'an but quotes of Hadith taken from Bukhari for example. You don't even know what the Qur'an is. You should go to college and get a proper education

 

The difference is Christians in the 21st century, within Western democratic nations, don't violently protest and scream that they want to cut people's heads off. The fact that you are deliberately disregarding that there is a serious issue here is of concern. I don't see Christians indoctrinating young kids to commit suicide attacks of other faiths, as is the case in Islam.

 

What, because he wanted them to go murder people? How do you reconcile your literal reading of the sword with His admonition to turn the other cheek? Be fair!

The events in the Garden of Gethsemane and the commands of Jesus there teach the Apostles nonaggression, so Luke 22:36 does not permit violence. He said to Peter: "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword" (Matt. 26:52). Peter and the others heard those words that clarify the use of swords. Therefore, a lifestyle of the sword must not be part of the disciples’ new walk with the resurrected Christ, as they preached his message of hope.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm

 

The only sad thing is your defence for the slaughter of civilians who aren't Muslim and your failure to recognise that there is a serious issue here. Some of them were linked to Quran, if you bothered to read the links, you would know this.

Now if you can't provide links with direct quotations from the Bible as I did with the Quran and Hadith, your submission of evidence should disregarded.

 

That's the point, the Bible contradicts itself. Even in the same book. Jesus himself told his disciples to buy swords and arm themselves. Then in another passage he condemns violence. It's called a contradiction, inconsistency, making the text questionable

 

Provide links to the Bible? Do you realize how retarded that sounds? The Bible is the most widely read book in the world. I've already quoted the references, all you have to do is look them up.

Here are some more direct quotes from the Bible:

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalm Chapter 137 Verse 9)
Here is a link https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+137:9&version=NIV

See the Bible is saying it is good to murder babies by smashing their skulls against rocks

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel+15:3&version=NIV

God in the Bible commanded the genocide of the Amalekites. He commanded that their women, children and infants, even their animals, be put to the sword. It is absolutely true that the Bible considers the murder of children and infants of the enemy as fair game to be slaughtered.

This time I hope you don't dodge or avoid the quotes. I have a list of hundreds of such quotes from the Bible. These are not isolated quotes at all

 

Keyword is secularization! A strict dividing of state and religion! This is in Islam not given!

Look on ISIS as good example! Their interpretation is told by them as the only valid version!

That Islamist are victims of brutal regimes too, if being against them as any other opposition is of course true. But Islamists are danger for the society, because if they rise the power, it is change from plague to cholera and everything, but not democracy! Islamist intention is to let all people follow the Islam as only valid law.
Best example were Muslim Brothers in Egypt. Sure, obviously democratic elected but then directly changing the more secluded state (even being a dictatorship of course) into an Islam country ruled by the religion. Should never happen and so the coup was for me OK to throw them off.

[QUOE]This sociological phenomenon shows a failure of the mainstream political, social, economic and religious systems of the world, rather than any problem with Islamists. Religion, especially Islam, from its founding moment, is a message directed primarily to the marginalized segments of society. It gives them a sense of belonging and purpose to otherwise empty and meaningless lives. I'm aware than in Europe as in the Muslim world, people who are attracted to their message are marginalized segments of society, such as drug addicts, criminals, etc. This to me is a positive aspect of "Islamism".
You compare it to neo-Nazis. It's quite obvious that neo-Nazis do not reform the young people they recruit into being moral law-abiding citizens. Neo-Nazis are well known, especially in Russia and eastern Europe, for being violent, engaging in acts of street violence and thuggery. Members of Islamist groups, however, are quite different, both in Europe and the Muslim world. They may be recruited from the same marginalized segment of society, but the Islamist programme reforms them in making them disciplined, moral, religious and family-centered people. Once again, I see the failure of mainstream political groups in not being able to reach out to the marginalized. Rather than blaming Islamists or others for attracting marginalized people, you have to direct your criticism to mainstream politics and ask yourself why that is happening.[/QUOTE]

Of course, the whole problem profound sociological and society problem background. And the details of the reasons would now need a whole new thread. In the end, however, it is a fact that Islamists, like all other radicals, take advantage of these circumstances to their advantage and capture disillusioned people. This is only possible because these bad circumstances make people more vulnerable to radicals. Even if these grounds are, of course, to be combated, it does not excuse the actions of all radicals, including Islamists, with their actions!

Of course this is negative! If I decide to live as a stranger in another country, then I have to respect and respect the laws, rules, values and culture of this country ... so I must integrate and not reject these things and then build a state in that state I live.
It cannot be that they use the liberties of this country to combat this freedom with my ideology. A good example of this is the so-called Salafists in Germany.
And of course, there are many other political groups from left to right too with an intention to destroy these things etc.

Do Islamist give freedom of speech, freedom of religion to choose and do they allow freedom to all people and no matter if following the Islam in Koran or not?
The Taliban are Islamist Extremist too who have their version and interpretation of Islam. Did they gave freedom of speech?

In Germany the Salafists for example. They make riots and violent protests and if someone is demonstrating against them, they run amok!
And about the Taliban I will not start to tell how they show people to follow them better, eh?

 

Old and New testaments cannot be reconciled. But the clear message of the New Testament is about loving your neighbor, not killing him. Jesus did apparently lose his temper in the temple when he saw the money changers, but he took it out on their tables, not their flesh.

Be fair. Like me.

 

Are you stupid? The verses of holy books are not to be taken literally. It is up to the recipients to take it as they wish. I gave you an example of Poland where majority is catholic and there's the lowest rate of violence against women. Now swing it around- Pakistan, a majority Muslim country: 90% of women experience domestic violence!!! 1,000 (one thousand!!!!) women and girls are victims of "honour killings" EVERY YEAR.


How can you say with a straight face that Islam is not violent, still to this day? Honour killings are a norm out there, and let me remind you we are in the 21st century!

 

You seem to be good at misappropriating texts and applying your own low level of theological understanding to them. You see, the links I supplied have verbatim quotes, citations and scholarly interpretations.

You are very weak at building a case it seems.

 

That was my point exactly with you quoting from "Wikipedia" without even bothering to study the in depth issues involved and having no theological understanding of Islam or the Qur'an. Seems you can dish it but can't take it

 

I am fully aware of takfiri ideology. The irony is that ISIS is as takfiri as they can get. A small fact completely lost on those that fear and hate Islam..

 

What are you on about? Ok in fairness, you can pick a single issue from the barbaric and backward Islamic selection of:

- Homosexuality in Islam
- Women beating in Islam
- Stoning to death in Islam
- Paedophilia in Islam
- Female genital mutilation in Islam

Then we will have a proper debate