Trump.... what would turn supporters against him

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ARDY, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just get a load of this:

    https://youtu.be/xecEV4dSAXE?t=11m55s

    We have an InfoWars president, a guy who parrots the worst BS put up online by a man with absolutely no credibility, through an outlet with absolutely no credibility, as do so many of his fervent supporters. If InfoWars claims with no factual basis that 3 million illegals voted in California, then bam, Trump and his supporters believe and repeat it. The President is as bad as every moron you've read spouting nonsense on a conspiracy forum. The President!

    It's freaking unreal.
     
  2. Ole Ole

    Ole Ole Banned

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    Trump in four year or Clinton three years then we get Johnson and Cruz 2020 and/or 2024.

    It is important now with presidents.
     
  3. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.

    That is the worst part of it.

    This is The POTUS.

    A tinfoil hat-wearing, conspiratorial moron who parrots delusional Fever Swamp conspiracies.

    He is an insult to the dignity of the office of POTUS.
     
  4. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    But he's not Hillary, who in a just world would be hanging from a tree right now for traitorous acts against her country.

    So we're in good shape.
     
  5. Bluebird

    Bluebird Well-Known Member

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    Well, out of the gazillion reasons already out there, my guess would be when trump starts
    #1--- messing with their Social Security
    #2----When trumps EPA director abolishes the EPA & all the problems that come with that
    #3--When they start seeing the effects on their children's Education under Devos
     
  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Just because Trump supporters think the current criticism of him is over the top bat crazy (which in my opinion it is, you personally have called for a military coup-wtf) doesn't mean they would support him regardless.
     
  7. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    WOW? What is the purpose of these threads? Why not a post on how to make America better instead of how to turn one against the other.
     
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, that clearly does not mean we're in good shape. One dishonest moron elected over another does not mean we're in good shape at all.

    But, at least Trump's brand of dishonesty has the potential to lead the nation to positive changes in the long-run. We can all learn from this grave mistake in a way we probably would not have with a President Killary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Step 1: Get the raging retard away from the nuclear codes.

    Step 2: Electoral reform to combat the horrible two-party situation we've been in for a long time now.
     
  9. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    This makes zero sense.

    Trump is a patriot and a nationalist.

    He's an answered prayer of millions of Christians, sent by God.
     
  10. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Very true.

    Hopefully you can direct your suggestion to PF's pro-Trump RW Fever Swamp echo chamber.
     
  11. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump could cure cancer and the left would still hate him for no other reason than he has an R next to his name. The left calls him a bigot for wanting to build a wall yet the libs cheered when Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Obama all wanted to restrict illegals from coming here.
     
  12. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do not blindly follow Trump. Let's look at his promises and maybe we will understand why people follow him.

    1. Promise to bring back jobs and create new jobs. Possibly remove Nafta.
    2. Build a wall along the southern border and deport people living in the country "illegally".
    3. Rebuild our military.
    4. Possibly remove abortion and put in conservative judges.
    5. Drain the swamp and remove corrupt or criminal people.
    6. Lower taxes to help businesses and get better trade deals with other countries.
    7. Stop Hillary from taking power and destroying our country.

    That is just a small list of some of his promises and he has already saved jobs so he is keeping to his word so far. He has not been president very long.
    I am giving him a full year. If after that I feel he has not done a very good job I will stop supporting him but so far he is actually doing a good job.

    It's also nice to see Melania Trump leading people in the lord's prayer. So far they are doing just fine except for his twitter rants which is minor.
     
  13. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Well I am in the military so his military policies directly impact me. Put it this way, I'm a pilot, and about 2 weeks ago or so we had a briefing with high brass and they said the words that none of us could believe we were hearing.

    "Your unit now virtually has unlimited flight time, you guys cannot fly enough, fly as much as you possibly can, I know it sounds crazy to you but I'm serious, you cannot fly enough".

    We all looked around the room at each other and started talking, one of our commanders raised his hand and asked flat out "Are you serious, what do you mean fly as much as we can? Like fly every day?" Brass's response: "Haha, yes that's what we mean, fly as much as your maintenance can support, rack those hours up, if you have working aircraft then I want them in the air, I don't want to see idle aircraft parked on the ramp, I want those things flying every day".

    We couldn't believe it because we'd never heard of anything like this before. We never get to fly that much, we simply didn't have the money. Our pilots maintained their minimums and that was about it. And now virtually overnight it went from flying to make legal minimums to make sure you remember how to operate the thing to flying until you're sick of flying and then fly some more. We have plenty of junior pilots who are good enough to keep the thing airborne and thats about it because they rarely get to fly. Now we can turn these kids into actual pilots with experience by letting them fly their butts off and get good at it and be effective pilots ready for whatever the future may hold. We didn't have that before.

    That ties in to overall combat readiness. Here is a little secret about the US. None of this is really a "secret" per say because you can read about it in the newspaper, but the US military was in trouble. Yes the US can adequately defend ourselves and we can pound virtually everybody on the planet if necessary, but like an article said recently, our starting line up can do that...we don't really have a "bench".

    Take a look at the Navy strike squadrons. The article said that those guys have thousands of F/A-18 fighters yet approx 85% of those things can't fly. They don't have the money to fix them. It seems reasonable because those numbers aren't too dissimilar from my own unit. All of our units are always running around to each other asking each other if we can borrow a bird because ours were broken. Most of the time we couldn't because they needed their own limited amount of working aircraft to let their own pilots fly (because they rarely got to fly anyway). That's been the running gag at work for years. We either have aircraft and no experienced pilots to fly them or we actually have pilots and no working aircraft. All of which results in having only a handful of combat ready crews able to launch for a war if necessary. That's not good....

    As the article said which is true across all branches, we can launch our all star players, but we have no backup.

    Now do we NEED to have a backup? Ehh yes and no. We've gotten so used to fighting terrorism that the general public has lost sight of what the US military is actually designed to do. We are a conventional war machine, so if we ever got into a conflict with a nation like Russia or China it would be important that we are able to launch more than just the first wave onslaught because such a war would last longer than a Desert Storm style steamrolling campaign. You don't want to run out of weapons in a conventional war, or be unable to launch the thousands of aircraft that you have because they are sitting on the airfield with busted engines or something. Or be forced to launch junior inexperienced pilots into a war zone who just figured out how to keep the thing airborne because they only fly twice a month.

    Now granted, although our military was "hurting" I can 100% guarantee you that if WE are in this sort of shape then Russia and China are much worse off. They can parade their military around all they want on TV but the truth of the matter is that if the US aircraft are at half combat readiness then the Chinese ones are barely flying at all. They make cool propaganda videos of planes doing loops and stuff but the reality is that they flew that thing one time for the video and its been sitting on the ground for months after that. So theres comfort in that, however "bad" we are doing just know that our enemies are much worse off regardless of what they say. So even if it came down to us only being able to launch one hardcore assault with our all star starting line up, we'd still win.

    I just personally don't like that. I like having first, second, third, and forth strike capabilities. I want to be able to launch the first wave, then an equally devastating second wave, and so on and so forth. Whether it would be necessary to do that I don't know, but I like the comfort of knowing it can be done if we had to, and as it stood over the past 8 years, I don't think we could.

    The majority of military "might" comes not from what you actually do, but from letting your enemies understand what you "can do". Deterrence is the biggest part of the military. It basically boils down to the fact that we have to maintain our military superiority over everyone else. We have to maintain the ability to send carrier strike groups into China's backyard whenever they start flexing their own muscle. We have to be able to send missile defense systems to S Korea and Japan to keep China bottled up in their own part of the world much to their dismay. We have to maintain the ability to tell Iran they can't build nukes because we said so. We basically have to maintain an unfair advantage in OUR favor against everybody else.

    Because if we don't, then they will. We are simply doing what any other nation on Earth would do if they COULD. It sounds arrogant and whatnot but basically what the US is doing is regulating just how powerful we allow other nations to get because we want to make sure that if we ever have to fight a war with you it will be one sided in our favor. In theory you would think that it would be better for the world if we were all equally powerful therefore none of us would fight each other because it would be pointless. No, we tried that and a very nasty conflict called World War I happened to where a bunch of equally powerful nations slaughtered each other without mercy killing 10 million people. Then another even worse conflict called World War II happened...

    No, the better solution is to have one overly powerful nation who maintains the ability to step in and say "cut this crap out". Although we can do that now, we were getting dangerously close to losing that huge advantage in my book. As of right now nobody fights the US in a conventional war because they know they would lose even with our weakened military we're still vastly more powerful than everybody else. Trump has promised to make it to where nobody fights the US because not only would you lose it would be absolute suicide because although we're stronger than you now we're about to take steroids and REALLY be able to hurt you.

    Necessary? I honestly don't know. But do I like it? Absolutely. Plus on a side note after my long rant for which I apologize, I'm a pilot....they told me I get to fly more, hell yeah I like that lol.
     
  14. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Hey I'm not saying the guy is a saint by any means. I didn't want him to be President, I personally wanted Kasich. I shook my head in disbelief when Trump won the primary and laughed/shook my head in awe when he actually won the election. But it came down to the lesser of 2 evils for me. I despise Hillary Clinton so the only choice I had was Trump. To me this was the most unfair election for the American people in the history of this country. We had to choose between those two knuckleheads to lead the country.

    I don't support a lot of the things Trump is doing, but for me personally it's the best option we had sadly. We were stuck between a rock and a hard place with this election. Trump or Hillary....They both have no business being anywhere near the White House but one of them was just slightly less horrible for the country than the other one in my book so I chose Trump. I mean hell SOMEBODY has to be President, and if you only have two horrible choices then you have to pick one, it's not like we the people could just say no we hate both of you nobody is winning, start over. Our system doesn't work that way.
     
  15. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To some extent I agree that current criticism is over the top
    But, histrory seems to indicate that partisan supporters of any stripe will defend their guy regardless

    Take bush...
    Basically his administration did lots of things that theoretically should have eroded his support
    And yet he was able to win re election
    Deficits did not matter, a grossly inept war did not matter
    Violation of constitutional protections did not lose his conservative support

    I am not saying clinton would be different... just inquiring about trump and his supporters
     
  16. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    Your post is a lie
     
  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    How so?
     
  18. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Come on. We have more choices than just two. We always do. It's just that everyone, yourself evidently included, is enslaved to the spoiler mentality ("lesser of two evils" - got to vote one in order to keep the other from winning, making any third party/independent candidate vote a "spoiler"). This is why I advocate some kind of reform to the system, so that we're no longer stuck with two political parties getting all of the campaign finance, and so that we might hopefully shatter the illusion of only these two being electable. It's a real rut.

    And, when the two big party choices are this bad, then there is no good choice between them. Lesser evil? That thinking is the greatest evil, when you look at what it is doing to this country in real terms. I've posted this before and will do it again - the Simpsons offered a brilliant commentary on this situation in their usually silly way:

    [video=youtube;chFaesfO7fQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chFaesfO7fQ[/video]

    Trump and Clinton were both about as bad as these aliens. Parody has practically become reality.
     
  19. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    Sequestration was the combined effort of the Republican Congress and Obama so trying to blame it all on Obama is just plain dishonest not surprising though
     
  20. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

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    Displaying the USA flag upside down will always continue his support! Please keep it up! Very much appreciated!!
     
  21. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think a single one of those would chase away his supporters. They either full on support those measures now or could likely be eased into it. Trump is a demagogue and exactly what the far right has been hoping for. They're not going to let him go unless he decides to become peaceful and reasonable. So long as he acts like a shouting strong man then it doesn't matter how many lies he presents or laws he tramples (or at least tries to), they'll back him to the brink of nuclear war. That's what I see anyway. The right got their Putin wannabe.
     
  22. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I know it wasn't all Obama's fault, I guess I should have made that more clear. To be honest I was in shock when I found out that it was in fact Republicans who put forth the military retirement overhaul. I sat here thinking damn you guys are supposed to be on "our" side, I never thought it would be Republicans who would try to change the military retirement system...

    But yes you are correct, it wasn't just Obama, it was the Republicans in Congress as well. Either way my post still stands. Regardless of whose fault it was I want the military rebuilt, and Trump is doing that, and if he stops doing that then I will cease to support him.
     
  23. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Rebuilt in what way?
     
  24. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I agree with you about the two party system. This past election is the prime example of why we need more choices. But I also live in reality. Sure I could vote for a third party candidate but that person wouldn't win and we all know it. Plus in this particular election I didn't like the policies of the 3rd party candidates.

    For me it came down to this. I supported John Kasich throughout the run. I knew he would lose but then I thought alright Ted Cruz will do, not my favorite but I can get on board with some of his policies. Then Cruz had to drop out and I said to myself well (*)(*)(*)(*)...

    So I'm sitting here thinking alright, Trump is a nutcase but he does have some policies that I support. Hillary, to me, is basically unable to accurately describe within the confines of the forum rules. So I said alright I can support a persons policies and not the person himself, that's how I operate in regular every day life anyway. I can like what you "do" and not like "you". My boss at work is like that. I can't stand the guy as a person, I mean at all, but sometimes he does things that I support. It's like yeah I like that decision you made, good job, I still hate YOU though, but you're still my boss so....

    I'll never be able to vote for somebody with whom I agree 100% on everything. It's just impossible unless I run for President myself and win. So I have to simply choose the candidate that supports more of the same things I support than the other candidates. Unfortunately in this case it was Donald Trump. It's as simple as that really.

    I'll vote for any candidate that supports more of the policies I agree with than any other candidate regardless of political party. If a 3rd party candidate would have supported more of what I support than Donald Trump then I would have voted for them. But they didn't. Unfortunately out of all of the candidates running it was Trump is supported more of what I support than all of the others, so he got my vote.
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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