Is Trumps Wall Feasible & Will It Help Our Society As Well As Help Protect America & Her Interests?

About two weeks ago, I finally got tired of reading about Trumps wall.

Regardless of what you think about the wall, whether you want it or think it's a good idea or not, at the time, it appears Trump will be building it.

So I think it's a good idea to publicly discuss, plan & strategize. I also came up with a rough estimate of time to build it.

There are obviously two opinions on the wall. I think both sides have positives & negatives & good points. I'm not sure I care if it ever happens, either way.

I have a PhD, a past in construction & design, am an electronics technician, car & motorcycle mechanic & have built rockets & drones. I also grew up on a farm working the land and animals.

I have a lot of experience in designing and building things, researching, planning, working the numbers, etc. So I decided to check out the wall prospect finally & see if it's feasible, at what cost & what would it provide for the cost.

I don't claim to be an expert in building multi thousand mile long walls or working on something of this size, so I could have forgotten some things. My b.

Here's what I came up with after a few days of work. Please feel free to ask questions, comment, point out mistakes or modifications, add or subtract, etc. Please don't be mad at me or hate me, I'm just posting the facts I've found to be true & hoping to start a public discussion.

1,954 Mile U.S. Mexico Border Wall Proposal

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---Wall Need:---
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1,954 Mile U.S. Mexico Border Wall

30' high in all areas.

15' trench under wall for supporting structure & tunnel prevention done using industrial trenching machines. Put wall anchoring & support, storage space, sensors, energy transportation & storage, fiber, etc in this area.

If you were able to do 3 miles per day, which would be easily doable with proper equipment, preperation & coordination - the wall would take around 22 months to complete.

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---Modular Panels:---
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All wall panels would be made of modular 30' by 30' by 3' reinforced panels.

Each panel contains 100 cu. yd. of concrete, or 10 x 10 cu. yd. concrete trucks.

Y-Slot, 6' x 9' X 15' under ground - 6' x 3' x 15' (x 2 one on each side) above ground.

Y-Slot's contain 50 cu. yd, or 5 x 10 cu. yd. standard concrete trucks.

Configuration 1 uses 250-350 cu. yd. per 30' section, confirguration 2 uses 150 cu. yd. per 30' section.

Wall panels would be around $6,500 each & Y-Slot $3,250 each in materials calculating $65 per cu. yd. bulk concrete delivered.

Depending upon reinforcement used, this will affect the price as well.

Recommend steel I-Beam or rebar for best strength to weight to cost ratio or a steel aluminum I-Beam or rebar hybrid for lower weight, good strength but higher cost.

A finished wall panel would weigh around 360,000 lbs at 180 tons & a Y-Slot 202,500 lbs at 101.25 tons.

Its recommended concrete be poured into molds on site already containing steel I-Beam or rebar & allowed to harden then removed & placed where needed.

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---#1:---
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/|\ shaped wall to prevent climbing attempts but allow room for monitoring equipment, solar power, barbed wire, grappling protection & similar on top.

Y shaped panel mounting slots that would be dropped into the ground every 30' & hold the panel section up.

This would require 2-3 30' x 30' x 3' panels & one Y-Slot per 30' section.

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---Cost:---
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At a cost of $6,500 per panel this would be $2,860,000 (352) - $4,004,000 (52 materials cost per mile for this configuration.

This would be $5,588,440,000 Billion - $7,823,816,000 Billion material costs for 1,954 mile wall plus any labor, electronics, solar power, barbed & razor wire used.

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---#2:---
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A standard \|/ configuration could also be used with the angular lines being barbed or razor wire.

Y shaped panel mounting slots that would be dropped into the ground every 30' & hold the panel section up.

This would require one 30' x 30' x 3' panel & one Y-Slot per 30' section.

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---Cost:---
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At a cost of $6,500 per panel & $3,250 per Y-Slot this would be $1,716,000 materials cost per mile for this configuration.

This would be $3,353,064,000B total material costs for 1,954 mile wall plus any labor, electronics, solar power, barbed or razor wire used.

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---Labor:---
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24 hour work schedule used in calculations to speed completion.

Yearly salaries calculated at 8 hour day, 40 hour per week, 52 week per year positions.

3 crew members needed for every position to account for 24 hour day & 8 hour shifts.

Recommend having 15% on-call backup work force.

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-Laborer:-
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$30 hr $62,400 yr per 36 laborer, 12 per shift.

$2,246,400 yr

---$4,118,400 Total---

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-Crew Leader:-
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$40 hr $83,200 yr per 12 crew leader, 4 per shift.

$998,400 yr

---$1,830,400 Total---

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-Equipment Operator:-
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$40 hr $83,200 yr per 72 equipment operators, 24 per shift.

$5,990,400 yr

---$10,982,400 Total---

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-Engineer:-
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$50 hr $104,000 yr per 12 engineer, 4 per shift.

$1,248,000 yr

---$2,288,000 Total---

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-Management:-
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$65 hr $135,200 yr per 12 management, 4 per shift.

$1,622,400 yr

---$2,974,400 Total---

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---Barbed & Razor Wire:---
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Barbed and razor wire at $500 to $800 per ton (2000lbs) 2.5 Mile (4000m) bulk.

You would need 782 at $391,000 to $625,000 for one coil of razor wire along the entire top of the fence.

---If you wanted extra coils, for instance one top, one on each side just below top (3 coils total) that would be $1,173,000 to $1,875,000 & so on.---

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---Solar:---
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If modular solar panels were built using off the shelf 5" $2.50ea 3.2W cells, 30" x 30" 36 cell solar panels, they would be 115 watt & $90 each.

If you did a 3 deep row on top of each 30' wall panel, for 36 total solar panels per wall panels.

6,336 total solar panels on 176 wall panels per mile. That's a cost of $570,240 per mile for solar. Price comes down here again depending upon amounts purchased.

When properly protected & maintained, solar panels still produce 80% of rated power after 20 years of use.

So along with the wall, this would be a long term system.

Each mile generates around 728kW continous daytime energy, or enough to power +/- 728 homes.

---If done for the entire 1,954 mile wall---

$1,114,248,960 Billion Install, this is enough to power +/- 1,422,512 homes.

This would generate +/- $141,000,000 per month, +/- $1,692,000,000 per year.

The wall could pay for itself within 2-6 years, everything after is just extra funding.

Calculations done at 70% average cell & panel efficiency.

Sun location & sun following systems, bad weather & cleanliness of panel, obviously affect this efficiency.

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---Solar Contracting---
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Could also potentially contract with some power companies or other groups to rent the space for solar or allow them to install & maintain it to help subsidize the wall or solar installation cost.

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Increased efficiency is easily possible & would therefore increase energy provided.

It's recommended panels be fitted with a sun following & auto-cleaning system, or following systems & a manual clean every 1-2 years to increase efficiency.

Solar panels would be modular & could be added & removed as needed, just be done every other wall panel, every two, etc to save money while also lowering output.

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---Cameras---
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One 25-75 mile range Day/IR/NV or alternating Day - Day/IR/NV camera every 7.5 miles of 1,954 Mile border.

This allows for accurate triangulation, depth perception & range finding. It also allows multiple cameras overlapping areas in case damage, defect or mutiple target or angle & shot need.

It's recommended cameras be fitted with a sun-shade & auto-following & auto-cleaning system & a manual clean every 1-2 years to increase efficiency.

260x total cameras at $1,500-$2,500 each for $390,000 - $650,000 total.

260x 50ft camera poles at $2,000 each for $520,000.

---Total surveillance cost $910,000 to $1,170,000.---

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---Equipment:---
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Recommend one backup for every two machines.

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--Purchase cost:--
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-4x Bulldozers-

$400,000-$900,000 Each

$1,600,000-$3,600,000 Total

-4x Motor Graders-

$150,000-$300,000 Each

$600,000-$1,200,000 Total

-4x Rollers-

$100,000-$200,000 Each

$400,000-$800,000 Total

-4x Dump Trucks-

$100,000-$200,000 Each

$400,000-$800,000 Total

-2x Excavators-

$150,000-$300,000 Each

$300,000-$600,000 Total

-2x Wheel Loaders-

$100,000-$200,000 Each

$200,000-$400,000 Total

-2x Trenching Machine-

$400,000-$750,000 Each

$800,000-$1,500,000 Total

-2x 250 Ton Crane-

$1,000,000-$2,500,000 Each

$2,000,000-$5,000,000 Total

---Total Purchase Cost: $6,300,000-$13,900,000---

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--Rental cost:--
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24 hrs day, 660 days, 22 Months

-4x Bulldozers-

$88,000-$198,000 Each

$352,000-$792,000 Total

-4x Motor Graders-

$154,000-$242,000 Each

$616,000-$968,000 Total

-4x Rollers-

$55,000-$121,374 Each

$220,000-$485,496 Total

-4x Dump Trucks-

$55,000-$104,500 Each

$220,000-$418,000

-2x Excavators-

$137,500-$220,000 Each

$275,000-$440,000 Total

-2x Wheel Loaders-

$104,500-$330,000 Each

$209,000-$660,000 Total

-2x Trenching Machine-

$121,000-220,000 Each

$242,000-$440,000 Total

-2x 250 Ton Crane-

$220,000-$550,000 Each

$440,000-$1,100,000 Total

---Total rental cost(24 hrs day, 660 days, 22 Months): $2,574,000-$5,303,496---

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Estimations could go up or down 10-25% depending on market & supply.

Recommend annual or Bi-Annual maintenence checks that could be performed by Border Control.

Recommend plant trees or folliage every 30 feet, 30 feet away from the wall that have near or above 30 foot mature height & diameter and/or paint - stain concrete to match surrounding area to help with unsightliness & heat generation.

Recommend water collection & transportation system.

So what do you think, what would you add or subtract, does it look right?

 

The Maginot Line built by France comes to mind.....

(You Trump Chumps can look it up).

 

You asked 2 questions in your thread title. My answer is no & no.........

 

BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL
And Mexico is going to pay for it

If you believe nothing else Trump promised, he will build that wall, no if's ands or butts

 

Minefields and motion tracking full auto 50 cal's would be cheaper

 

22

22
Months ? I doubt that . There will be anti American Democrats down there causing damage and harassing the workers. They will not allow Trump anything at all. They are terrorists .

 

That's a given. But assuming things like that were able to be controlled, my version of the math and estimate is indeed 22 months. You can usually tack 15-35% more time on to any job to account for things such as what you mentioned. But my calculations don't include that, they're "perfect world".

 

If this project goes forward, it will be the biggest waste of American money.

Better use...

 

After having added the numbers & compared using my design at least, I disagree. The money we spend on wars, social welfare, healthcare/living/education, for illegal aliens & border control, drug & sex trade, etc, every year, far Trumps(pun intended) the walls cost, many many times over in fact.

Not that I'm saying the wars are why we are building the wall or that any wall will stop wars from happening. I'm just researching, comparing and doing my own personal cost benefit analysis, as I encourage anyone and everyone to.

A lot of false half-fact information is pushed on the masses these days & sadly most people believe it and take it at face value.

The money we save building this on all of the social welfare & other related costs, could be better spent on Americans & rebuilding our country, creating jobs & infrastructure, bettering our bad education, healthcare & transportation systems, etc.

He's not saying he doesn't want immigrants, from everything I've gathered. He wants legal ones that aren't leeches, work, pay taxes & are good citizens like the larger portion of immigrants are. I don't see a problem with that, if you went to any other civilized country these days, they want and require the same from migrants.

 

Looks pretty good. Let me crunch this a bit. Thanks for thinking.

 

The DMZ in Korea is mostly electrified barbed wire and land mines.

 

You might deduct the 700 miles already built. you also need to add tunnel detecting equipment. you also need big nets to catch the planes that are bringing in the tourists that over stay their VISA.

 

@Belch - Which would be orders of magnitude cheaper than this. But somehow, I don't think that's a good idea, or something that would ever be approved & funded...thankfully.

@katzgar - I think I read or heard somewhere at some point even for areas that already had fencing they were thinking of replacing or upgrading it. Yeah, I forgot to research tunnel detecting/seismic equipment if anyone knows anything about it and how many I'd need feel free to chime in or I'll add in later, though IR cameras can cover that to a certain depth.

 

The biggest waste is THIS IS NOT WHERE THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE COMING FROM (all caps to get it through the thought processes of the trumpistas)

Did the Berlin wall work? Yes to a degree but they were also ready to shoot people - is America ready to do that?

And really - would you be better off just planting a nice thick border of Bouganvillia - looks prettier, will grow in most areas, even deserts and has 3 inch thorns that will slow ANYTHING down!!

Finally, and acknowledging the vast amount of work you put into your OP - have you considered the logistics of WHERE you will build it because I understand there are rivers, private property and Indian reservations that have to be crossed

 

I've heard rumors that it will be built along the border.

 

Building the wall down the middle of a river is going to add a lot to the cost you got to divert the river you got to dig a channel he got to build diversion ditches all that stuff to get the river out of there so you can build the wall in the river

 

Trump, who has cast himself as a master dealmaker, will need to coordinate massive voluntary sales of property near the border or negotiate easements for large swaths of land to make way for the wall construction. This is no small feat. Only about one-third of the land the wall would sit on is owned by the federal government or by Native American tribes, according to the Government Accountability Office. And much of that territory is already fenced. The rest of the border is controlled by states and private property owners. Estimating the costs of negotiated sales of all the territory at stake is difficult ahead of time, because the fragmentation raises questions about market value, particularly for land in the limbo zone south of the planned wall but north of the border.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-its-getting-the-land/?utm_term=.4dc7a832607d

Are you happy if the government start to confiscate private property to build the wall?

 

If I were to build it, I'd just build it where it's already been planned in the past. Rivers can have other systems installed over or near them. You can easily build a closed tunnel under a wall for diverting/protecting rivers. Despite what you may think, it doesn't cost much.

Private property & Indian reservation can be purchased, or push come to shove, seize-purchased.

It's where 30-40% of them are coming from, the rest from Canada, air, ship or other means. Irregardless, 30-40% is a huge number when you add up how many per year that is & the costs associated with those that do make it in & stay every year.

Yes, a lot of the current illegal residents, are here and stay here, simply because they can & we do little to prevent it. In many cases we end up spending money on them while they are here, or helping them stay here via social services & other programs.

There are a lot of other things we could do legally & financially to prevent illegal immigrants from staying in the country once here. Just make it impossible for them to live here and survive, buy food, fuel, rent housing, etc, they'd willingly go home I'd imagine. But liberals & businesses run our government & a lot of these people receive funding & support from these groups or programs dedicated to them, they don't want that.

Not only that, any American citizen knows any types of reforms take 4/8/12 so on years, assuming they aren't mothballed anyways. As most are, because the dummies running our government can never get anything done.

So they will never pass all of the reforms needed for that, the simpler & cheaper option, anyways. This has been forced on Americans by their inaction or lack of incorrect action, for decades.

Immigration could easily be reformed & sped up, but they will never do that either, so again, forced hand. Not like we have the jobs for immigrants anyways, we can barely employee all Americans.

 

The wall, it's happening sweetheart:

 

Environmental impact?????

.

You really really do not want the government to open the pandora box of nasties with this one

Reference your numbers please

Now I see the right wing "never bother to research a problem properly" ideology

Firstly forget the "its all the liberals fault' because that is lazy thinking at it's worst

Secondly - do some BASIC google research and you will find that there has been a diminution of the number of illegals



http://www.pewreseahttp://www.pewre...5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Hmmm - when was the highest rate of illegal immigration? Can anyone say "Bush Era"??

 

No, no, and no to answer your three questions. We don't need a wall. We simply need to enforce the law as written and let the illegals know they are no longer welcome here by making it very uncomfortable for them to come in illegally and/or stay here.

 

Except it is totally unnecessary and there is no effing way "Mexico is paying for it."

 

Even better yet would be to enforce the law as written and let the illegals know they are simply not welcome here.

 

Just build it on our side of the river. Think of it as a really long moat.