Law proposes men be taxed for masturbation - highlights abortion issues

I never said I want it to be illegal. I have stated that it is a state issue not federal and I don't want tax dollars to spent on it.

 

YUP, as soon as other arguments are blown out of the water the old "not with my money" comes up...no concern for the aborted baaaaabies? Just your money?


...and NO, it should not be a state issue since women who are American citizens are American citizens in ALL states...

 

Do you want it to be illegal? Yes or no. Any other answer will be taken as a sidestep and therefore a yes.

I don't want my tax dollars paying for welfare queens to give birth, but I don't get a choice in that.

 

Can you not read a previous post, no I don't want abortion to be illegal. I support it as a states right, not federal...And no I don't want tax dollars to pay for it
If you are too stupid or lazy to go get protection or the morning after pill, then pay for the abortion.

 

What arguments did you supposedly blow out of the water....you say that I, because I am a man, cannot possibly know what a woman goes through when pregnant. I'm informing you that everyone in the household goes through it...you obviously have no experience with pregnancy or something like cancer....you have no empathy and only look at things from a clinical viewpoint.
No common sense.
And yes if you are too lazy to get protection or get the morning after pill...then pay for the abortion. Maybe next time you'll pay for that condom.

 

Again, you appear to be confused: I NEVER said you didn't know what a woman goes through when pregnant.

You obviously didn't though because you thought giving a back rub and driving to the store late at night were equivalent to being pregnant.


No, I have no empathy for men when it comes to pregnancy....no matter how much they "suffer" .

II don't know what a woman goes through?? I showed you and you showed total disrespect for what women go through, you denied it!!!
YOU have NOT suffered any of the following ....NO,, you haven't ONLY pregnant women go through this...and your little trip to Walmart does NOT compare!








Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death.
  

 

Going back to the original intent here. Women making a joke using legislation as a method. Well, I suppose that if you were super high, and tripping on mescaline, probably this made sense to someone.

I fail to see how the "joke" creates any impetus for constructive conversations. For those who believe that not having access to abortion somehow becomes a dictate on how you use your bodies, I would simply ask what is the limit? If government cannot tell you what you can do to yourself, or obtain services on your behalf, where does that leave us? Can government then not tell us or demand us to use seatbelts? Require airbags? Set drinking ages? Create smoke free zones? If government doesn't have a "right" to regulate the body, then it doesn't. I don't, however, see women who support abortion then campaigning against any of the obviously other areas where governments do, in fact require invasive process and regulation. School vaccinations?

I would just ask those who are so dogmatic on this issue to think about limits. What are they, where do we set them, etc.

 

Again clinical, I can look things up on the internet too. Most of what you have posted is worst case scenarios and happens infrequently....
You can't have an intelligent argument with someone with no practical experience. So we will agree to disagree.
Since you can't differentiate between practical experience and book learning. Or recognize sarcasm in my original post. There is no sense arguing with a college educated.....

 

Smoke free zones? Seat belts? Laws in general?

Yes, laws are in place to protect people from people....I don't wish to breathe other's smoke or have my insurance go up even more because some moron didn't wear a seat belt.
Murder , theft, rape al are against the law because they affect people....and with no laws against them there would be chaos in society.

Abortion has no such effect on society.

But take away women's rights to their own bodies and it will escalate...it may even affect men some day as rights get eroded..

 

OMYGAWD, the misogyny in that statement...such disrespect to ALL women including MOTHERS and WIVES....denigrating what EVERY woman who gets pregnant faces!!!


NO, YOU didn't even have the courage to READ what happens to women or you would know BY THE HEADINGS that these are NOT "worst case scenarios" and "happen infrequently".



This is what EVERY pregnant woman faces....and you brag about back rubs !!! No sense you arguing with facts and if education frightens you ("There is no sense arguing with a college educated") then no, you'll never believe it..



Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death.

 

The question was limits. Not absolutes. Seat belts are designed to save your life. No one cares about your insurance costs. We regulate smoking because it's harmful to you, the smoker do we not? We rationalize it because it costs the economy money? Laughable. It's government dictating what you can or cannot do with your body. Alcohol age limits do the same thing. These are simply other examples of how government chooses to regulate what you can or cannot do with your own body. Why are there illegal drugs at all? If government doesn't have a role in dictating what we can do to ourselves, why is there any legality to laws that limit our choices for recreational drug use?

You claim you wish "protection from other people". Id suggest that perhaps you clearly don't understand your stance. I could just as easily claim that free access to abortion creates the kind of permissive environment that erodes our fundamental rights as citizens, and cast you into that category of social crime. I doubt you'd be willing to sit there, no?

You suggest that we "don't want chaos". Ok, why would we tolerate the destruction of things like personal responsibility for actions? Doesn't that also erode civility?

 

This is like the fourth time you posted this clinical list. Why don't you just admit that you have no experience in this area.
Have you ever talked to your mother or grandmother about child birth and why they put themselves through it. I would bet that both would say that it was worth it. See women have been having babies for thousands of years without all this medical gobbley gook that scares people like you because you won't listen to people like your mother or grandmother...
Women are not forced to have babies in this country, and you can try to belittle my experience as a father and husband but all you do is prove your ignorance.

 

You could claim that with no proof whatsoever but abortion has been around for hundreds, probably thousands, of years and is not responsible for human behavior.


, and cast you into that category of social crime. I doubt you'd be willing to sit there, no?

It's personally responsible to have an abortion if you don't want, or can't afford, a kid.
See, YOUR idea of "personal responsibility"" is not every one's..

...abortion has not affected society except maybe for the fact that it kept the population down which is a good thing.

 

What has my experience got to do with scientific facts? Nothing. What has your experience got to do with scientific facts? Nothing.

What has grandmother's and mother's OPINIONS got to do with scientific facts ? Nothing,.

So what if women say it was worth it? That is their choice. It doesn't prove science wrong.

Why shouldn't I belittle your experience as a father when you belittle what woman go through with pregnancy ?

 

The Greeks used to throw kids in a pit and let them starve. How is your version any better? If you cannot take personal responsibility for your sexual relations, who can? So, your "cure" is that we have to tolerate infanticide on your behalf, because that is more "personally responsible?

Which leads us back to the conversation at hand. What are the limits? Why can government tell me which drug I can or cannot buy/use but government cannot tell me to protect the life of an unborn child?

 

Sorry but it's hard to discuss real life with someone who doesn't know the difference between born and unborn and fetuses and infants...or compares abortion to throwing kids in pits..


You:""If you cannot take personal responsibility for your sexual relations, who can? ""

Good! You're learning...But NO one can take PERSONAL ( you don't know what PERSONAL means either?) from someone...and they shouldn't.

 

So, your response is, you don't have one, but were to embarrassed to admit it? So, instead, you wrote this? Well, as I've always said, who needs to pay for HBO when we have forums like this....

Your last sentence doesn't mean anything. Perhaps you should re edit. I would advise that "personal" isn't a possession. It is a description. Like green. It cannot be "taken"...

Is it telling that you aren't willing to discuss limits? Likely not in your agenda's interests.....

 

I just want to know, how exactly they were intending to enforce this?

 

No, I clearly gave you an answer you just didn't like.

What "limits" did you want to discuss in relation to abortion?

 

They weren't....

It , like a law against abortion, can't be enforced...and it wasn't meant to REALLY be a law ....

 

You did not say you don't want it to be illegal.

Tax dollars *should* pay for abortion, better than paying for welfare queens to give birth.

 

I am against mandatory seatbelt, helmet, airbag laws. It should be up to the establishment owner to create smoke free zones if s/he wants to. I am against mandatory vaccination.

 

How would laws against abortion be enforced? You would never know if a woman took a home pregnancy test and went underground to abort.

 

I don't belittle women...you pushed your own opinions on me because you have nothing to go on but what some science says that you just happen to agree with.

So here is some science for you.
1. From the moment of fertilization the baby has it's own unique DNA.
2. At 24 days the baby's heart begins beating.
3. At 28 days the baby has it's own blood pumping through it body, seperate from it's mothers.
4. At 42 days the cartilage skeleton is complete and begins ossification into bone. The baby's brain can now coordinate voluntary movement of muscle.
5. At 43 days a baby's brain waves can be recorded.

I could go on but I think you can get the picture...."but a fetus can't survive without the mother." This is true but the same can be argued for born children up to the age of 10.

So you see, science is a double edged sword, most of what I posted happens before the mother even realizes she is pregnant.

 

When you deny the science involved in what happens to pregnant women you A. Deny science(foolish) B. belittle women and what they go through with gestation and child birth.


YOU do approve of science as you mistakenly think you made a point...you didn't.


...and NO, a 10 year old does not need, nor is attached physically to, it's mother.

There are ten year olds whose mother died in child birth, they're alive, how do you explain that???