If There is No God, is Murder Wrong? (a Reply to Dennis Prager)

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Durandal, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    If there is a God, why not?
     
  2. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Because, as an atheist, I have a high level of morals.




    Among primates, there are occasional conflicts between tribes. These usually involve little killing. Very seldom does a member of a tribe kill another member of the same tribe.

    Among humans, as far back as can be recalled from ancient writings, there have been conflicts and wars. As the Bible tells us, these wars were often to promote God. God gave his blessing to the wars. God gave his blessing to the slaughter of the surviving children. Following God leads to death and destruction.

    Human morality developed long before the written word.
     
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  3. Hear me Roari

    Hear me Roari New Member

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    Empathy, fear of potential consequences, etc.
     
  4. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That's in accordance with the First Commandment.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Murder is wrong because it is anti-social behavior. Humans are organized in social groups with fairly complex emotional interactions and control over anti-social behavior is necessary for the communal good. "Do unto others as", is certainly not original to the abrahamic gods' "golden rule".
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Murder is not against any of the Ten Commandments. It's against one of the biblical laws but it's OK if the murderer makes it to one of the sanctuary cities before he's caught.
     
  7. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Well I never.

    I don't know that I showed anyone, seeing I'm not in a position to pry anyone's eyes open.

    I can hardly keep what I haven't got to begin with, thanks anyway.

    The record shows I did precisely that; and believe me, it wasn't challenging in the least.

    Because knowledge of right from wrong is innate, wherefore authority figures who presume to teach it usurp the role of conscience in the individual they presume to teach. You're welcome.

    Which doesn't have a damn thing to do with what I said, so thanks for nothing.

    No, it means we only have reason to follow them insofar as they are consonant with the dictates of conscience.

    No interpretation is required, because it is communicated directly and nonverbally.

    Proof is unnecessary, as it's self-evident. OTOH, your idea of the source of good is a lot like the idea that rivers have human urine as their only source.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If your conscience overrides the law you’re not following the law at all, it would just be coincidence when your conscience aligns with the law. You’re basically saying “Do whatever you think is right” which contradicts the entire principle of societal rules and laws.

    Then how come no two believers seem able to agree on exactly what “God’s law” is? Also, with “God’s law”, does the “as long as it’s consistent with your conscience” condition apply and if not, why?
     
  9. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    You don't just get to argue your point is self evident.

    The water cycle has evidence. Your god has none.
     
  10. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    I said nothing that needed translation, so you are out of order in presuming to provide it.

    Surely I need not remind you how that "principle" played out at Nuremberg.

    Because for the most part, God's law is no more concerning to them than it was to the pharisees circa 30 A.D.

    Since they are one and the same, the question is moot.

    Who the hell's gonna stop me?

    I'm not arguing it, I'm bearing witness to the bare fact.
     
  11. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Look deeper.
     
  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    And why is it innate? It is not because of religion, and it is not somehow because of "God". It is because we are genetically hard-wired as a consequence of evolution to be social animals with impulses and affinities that are conducive to survival of our species.
     
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  13. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Logic. Calling something self-evident doesn't make it self-evident.
     
  14. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for nothing.

    Yes, it is.

    Which might be interesting to those who are sufficiently shallow-minded as to imagine superior survivability is what makes the human species unique. You are certainly welcome to such a self-serving mythology, but I am nowhere near dumb enough to buy into it.

    Your point being...?
     
  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Nope. And I said why.


    What a dumb response. Silly religionist, all species are hard-wired as a consequence of evolution with impulses and affinities that are conducive to survival, -even earthworms.


    -or smart enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  16. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    If you are going to call something self-evident you need to support that with argumentation.
     
  17. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    whaaaaaaat?
     
  18. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    The problem being, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    Sure, like I haven't heard this drviel a million times over the last decade and a half, from people who have no idea what a human being is.

    Obviously you don't understand the term.
     
  19. Guno

    Guno Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Guno

    Guno Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    when you talk of god which one are you referring too? there have been thousands


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities
     
  21. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RELIGION is NOT the sole source of morality.

    The three basic principles upon which virtually all types of "morality" based are:

    Do unto others as you would have done unto you - a sentiment that existed long before the Abrahamic gods
    Do no harm unless in self defense.
    Live and let live.

    So don't steal, don't kill, don't screw around, tolerate others and you know the stuff many seem to directly associate with their one particular god/dogma. A rather glaring lack of perspective that one must expect from the faithful I suppose.
     
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Moreso than you as I showed in post #62.


    And as we see, it hasn't sunk in yet.


    So it's not just me. Anyone with whom you disagree you simply accuse of ignorance rather than actually offering a counterargument. Sad.
     
  23. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    No doubt those whose humanity has been compromised will agree.

    And, barring a trip to Room 101, it never will, thank God.

    Actually, in your case I'm afraid that is rather gilding the road apple.
     
  24. William Rea

    William Rea Well-Known Member

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    All morality is subjective but, subjective morality can be arrived at objectively.
     
  25. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Actually anything that's subjective is not morality.

    Do tell.
     

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