Ancient DNA and the human past

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by ThirdTerm, May 1, 2017.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK but 1 to 4% of DNA doesn't undo the out-of-Africa hypothesis. That's like saying because some European settlers interbred with Native Americans, everyone in North America is Native American.
     
  2. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does establish PeopleKind were "there" already and capable of interbreeding and producing fertile off spring.
    1 to 4% is a long way from the academicians who advocated 0% for so long.​
    Chinese Anthropologist advocated "Continuity Through Continuous Hybridization".
    That few percent difference establishes a different "look" to a Modern Chinese from a Black - Out of Africa cousin. Also different sensitivities to pharmaceutical medication. One learns that going to medical school in San Francisco. Who knows what future studies might reveal of the presence of archaic DNA, now up to 1 - 4% from 0% by EuroAmerican anthropologist.

    Also, considering simians evolved from China and moved to Africa, I do not discount ancient, archaic, Not H. erectus PeopleKind evolved from China, and we just can't find them. They are under water. Or lost in what were bamboo jungles.
    Convergent Evolution also works for me. The evolutionary pull / selection was the same.
    Bigger brain. Hands and Feet.

    The variation in the Dmanisi skulls https://www.google.com/#q=dmanisi+skull would suggest there was maybe, something like the Cambrian explosion in "us" evolution. Lots of variation, the best wins. And the best includes the most hybridized.
    A great representation is in the movie, "Quest for Fire".

    Only 1 - 4%? Either a very significant 1 - 4% or that is a low ball number.
    BTW the only contribution I can see for those last Out of Africa folk was making females fertile once a month. And menstruate too. Ref.: goat story above.

    Moi :oldman:

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  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lookie what I just found :woot:
    https://www.cnet.com/news/history-rewritten-with-europe-the-birthplace-of-mankind/
    History rewritten, with Europe the birthplace of mankind
    It looks like we humans may have evolved from an ape-like
    creature found in Bulgaria and Greece, not Africa.

    The findings shift the location of the last common ancestor of both chimpanzees and humans, what some refer to as the Missing Link, to the Mediterranean. Our ancestors were apparently already starting to evolve in Europe 200,000 years before the earliest African hominid.

    How's that lil Mike?

    Moi :oldman:

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  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is arguing against that. We've known about Denisovans and Neanderthal mixture for a while.

    I thought we were talking about humans? Not prehuman primates.


    None of this discredits out of Africa.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  5. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please check the ref.: above. Comment. Dialog. Thank you.
    We really can't draw a line and say, this is a Prehuman primate, can we?
    Please expound on it if you can.
    I thought we were talking about, "Only Out of Africa or Not". :woot:

    Moi :oldman:

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  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point, I don't know what you're arguing.
     
  7. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    The mitochondrial DNA tree shows that all of us have common African ancestry traced back to approximately 200,000 years ago and the multiregional model is no longer relevant. Michael Hammer is Director of the University of Arizona Genetics Core (UAGC) and a research scientist who has run a productive lab in human evolutionary genetics.



    Today there is an abundance of DNA sequence data from the entire genome of contemporary human populations, as well as from ancient DNA recovered from extinct forms of humans. Michael Hammer (Univ of Arizona) discusses how analyses of these data, with increasingly sophisticated computational tools, are yielding new insights into human evolutionary history. Series: "CARTA - Center for Academic Research and Training in Anthropogeny" [Science] [Show ID: 25394]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason the most recent Out of Africa mtDNA predominates is
    Those Females were Menstrual.
    EurAsian female PeopleKind were "seasonal".
    This model holds for African goats vs European goats. And mated, produce fertile offspring.

    For a good time, :woot: check out male Y haplogroup A00. It is older than "Homo sapian".

    Moi :oldman:

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  9. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Has everybody seen this?

    Michael Cremo: "Forbidden Archaeology" | Talks at Google


    Michael Cremo - Forbidden Archeology



    If he's not telling outright lies about the evidence, he has a good case. I don't rule out the possibility that he's lying but I don't think it's likely.
     
  10. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Depends on which DNA; some DNA is more important than others, and despite the wishful thinking it's not a reliable 'dating' method for determine origins.
     
  11. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    There was even one theory that postulated humans originated in the South Pacific and migrated west across Australia, in SE Asia, and then across to Africa and Europe. Haven't seen that one being thrown out there in a while. In any case, I don't see so many races and ethnic features all popping up from a single origin; the cycle would take far too long, for one. We don't see blacks who have lived in northern Europe gradually turning into Norwegians, or early Dutch settlers in Africa turning negroid, so obviously it wasn't an important enough adaptation to environmental conditions as far as the evolution theory is concerned.
     
  12. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Light skin mutations were introduced after our ancestors interbred with Neanderthals and human skin color variations may not be directly linked to Vitamin D or environmental factors as previously surmised. There is also the Denisovan factor and Oceanians are around 6% Denisovan genetically, which may give them distinctive archaic looks.

    [​IMG]

    This symposium brings together researchers at the forefront of ancient DNA research and population genetics to discuss current developments and share insights about human migration and adaptation. Recorded on 04/29/2016. Series: "CARTA - Center for Academic Research and Training in Anthropogeny" [7/2016] [Science] [Show ID: 30971]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep in mind the people who now live in the Middle East and Caucasus region (the origins on the map) do not look like the people who lived there 2500 years ago. There were later mass migrations into these regions, especially during the Arab migrations circa 400 A.D.
     
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  14. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Check out the ancient Yamnaya, also known as Yamna.
    From out of the Caucasus they made the Middle Eastern genome of Europe, Whiter.
    https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=yamnaya
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    I suspect they are "the" Indo Europeans!
    The source of China's blond mummies.
    Please share your thoughts.

    Moi :oldman:
    BTW the alabaster, not albino, whiteness of Finns developed independently.

    r > g

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    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.

     
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  15. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Genetic mutations are rare, and ones that aren't harmful are many times rarer, while genetic recombination is far more prevalent and far less harmful. I think some of these theories and interpretations are conflating mutation with recombination; they are not the same thing.
     
  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you be specific.
    Give examples of what you say in general above?

    Thank you
    Hey, it ain't like I'm asking for a reference. Just more of what are you thinking, specifically.
     
  17. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    I'll find some statistics for you, have to look them up, but basically a Caucasian having children with an Asian woman is not mutating genes, it's recombination. Mutations are actual completely new changes in the genes themselves, via abnormal means.
     
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  18. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No need to look it up. Really.

    What I was saying :blahblah: was to the best of my knowledge there are 3 genome, biochemical pathways that whitened darker skin. The Asian way. The Finn and the Yamnaya.
    BTW I do not buy the Out of Africa stuff. Rather continuity through continuous hybridization.

    Then the question is how did Whiter a recessive trait become dominant in populations.
    Answer: Sexual selection. All cultures value a paler complexion. Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, India, South East Asia, etc. etc. Even Black men. ;)

    Maybe Vitamin D synthesis in skin too. Before American milk was Vitamin D fortified, rickets was relatively common in the new Black population that settled the North after the War Between the States. In more primitive times, darker persons may have had more health issues at northern latitudes. Vitamin D does more than just Calcium, implicated in immunity too.
     
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  19. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    I wasn't addressing your posts specifically, just making a general comment on several posts whose wording seem to conflate recombination with 'mutations'.

    I don't buy the 'Out Of Africa' speculation, either; too much evidence coming out that contradicts it, from Spain to Russia to Canada to Australia and even Central America. I don't buy the 'common ancestor' speculation, either, nor that a tiny collection of bones from extinct species of apes that will fit on my kitchen table is 'scientific proof' humans evolved from apes, which is just ridiculous and an example of political ideologies trying to pass for 'science'. If assorted atheists, deviants, and sociopaths want to bash Xians, they should just bash Xians and stop pulling ridiculous nonsense out of their asses and trying to claim they're being 'rationalists'; they aren't.

    Best guess would be it wasn't a recessive trait, but dominant all along.

    The assorted speculative guesses required to make evolution make sense pretty much excludes all these different groups having a common origin; evolution as posited now works far too slowly to have popped all these racial and tribal characteristics so quickly and over such a wide areas of the world.

    I would say that's just more evidence for the case of separate origins across the Eurasian continent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  20. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Cheddar Man was likely to be a close genetic relative of La Brana 1, a 7,000-year-old individual from the La Brana-Arintero site in Leon, Spain. His approximate date of death was 7,150 BCE, which is close to that of La Brana 1. La Brana 1 had dark skin and blue eyes just as Cheddar Man and it carried the very rare Y-DNA haplogroup C6-V20, a low-frequency European clade of haplogroup C. Cheddar Man was determined to have belonged to haplogroup U5 and La Brana 1 belonged to mtDNA haplogroup U5b2c1 (Olalde et al. 2014).

    [​IMG]


    Just like La Brana 1, Cheddar Man may also have carried Y-DNA haplogroup C6, which explains his darker skin pigmentation compared to modern Europeans. Haplogroup C is a known Asiatic haplogroup and the first Briton may have been genetically half Asian. Haplogroup C reaches its highest frequencies among the indigenous populations of Mongolia, the Russian Far East, Polynesia, and Australia. Cheddar Man's paternal genetic heritage, haplogroup C6-V20, is also called haplogroup C1a2 (V20). C1a is extremely rare worldwide but it has been found mainly among individuals native to Japan (0.3%) or Europe (0.5%) and among Upper Paleolithic Europeans (i.e. La Braña 1).

     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  21. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    So this isn't R1 or R2 that I'm looking at, but, something else? Something not R1 or R2 ?
     
  22. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    David Reich recently published this important book, which is the only popular science book available on human genetics. I'm already familiar with what he explained in this book, which should be read widely by non-specialists. Otherwise, you need to comb through academic papers full of jargons to understand this new and rapidly developing discipline. Reich also gave a lecture at Seattle Town Hall a week ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  23. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    not all you misunderstand the lecture completely...genetics is absolutely definitive on this, we all came from africa
     
  24. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    naw you missed it too..
     
  25. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    great posts\, well done...I'd recommend reading A Brief History Of Everyone Who Ever Lived -Adam Rutherford
     

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