I'm meeting a quiverfull family

Well, if the guy was a true Christian he wouldn't invite a non-believer into his home in the first place.

1 Timothy 6:1-5 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1timothy6:1-5&version=CEB;NLT;KJV;MSG;VOICE

2 John 1:7-10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2John1:7-10&version=CEB;NLT;KJV;MSG;VOICE

Remember, bad company corrupts good character.

 

Probably not a very good to have such a discussion in front of someone else's kiddies.

 

I'm meeting him on Wednesday. I'll tell you all what happens.

 

Sure. If you go for the strategy of trying to learn something rather than putting him on the spot, there is no problem with questions, even some moderately uncomfortable ones.

 

These religious wackos always do that - I often wonder if they get a commission from god, oops, I mean from God! My son's soon-to-be-ex wife is like that, and it has destroyed their marriage.

 

This was not a trap he set up. See, he was actually upfront about his intentions, but I am not sure that you were. You are going ahunting.

You are about to have this guy you called a friend in the OP, and his wife cook you a meal and serve you his hospitality under the pretext of a sincere discussion with an open mind. Now if I were you, I'd call him up and tell him that I would enjoy the meal, but I am not interested in talking religion at any length because I am an atheist who is not interested in converting. If the invitation still stands and I suspect it will, then plan to enjoy yourself and see to it your hosts enjoy themselves as best you can. What you really are doing otherwise, is going there to entertain yourself... at his and his family's expense. this is not a good time to show you are smarter than he is, if you are eating his food in his home, surrounded by his family, while you are doing it.

 

Please do and remember to chew with your mouth closed even when it's so damn indigestible and causes a brain aneurysm - religious rhetoric tends to do that.

 

Eat first! Then try to get in dessert before the BS starts....then remember an important appointment and run like heck....

 

I visited a friend from work, who was "born again." Thankfully, the topic of religion never came up. That would have been a w k w a r d.

 

I just got back from the dinner. It went surprisingly well. I actually can get along very well with someone I have many disagreements with. We did talk about the Bible. There were no awkward moments although he did make me uncomfortable from time to time.

So let's start with the positives:

He did not ask me what my beliefs are. We spent zero time on me. He just talked about how great his faith is. And not once did he say anything like 'Are you ready to repent?' or 'Come to my church' or 'You must accept Jesus as your savior'

I asked him all the questions I listed and a few more except the question about if he did scripture studies with his kids. I asked them as politely as possible and he had well thought out answers.

The food was great and my wife spoke with his wife as we were having our discussion and our daughter played with his kids. I avoided using the word 'quiverfull' but still asked him about his lifestyle with many kids of which he was very happy to discuss.

There was one moment where I worried that he would get into creationism. Fortunately that subject was avoided.

There were however moments I found myself holding back from abruptly leaving or arguing. Those were:

His creepy end times talk.

The pro-Drumpf prayer before dinner led by his elderly father who is a pastor made me grit my teeth a little.

Finally I did not like how much he asserted that he knew how right he is. Too much 'I know' and almost no 'I do not know' or 'I believe'

Overall, a very successful interaction with somebody I don't agree with much on. We agreed to meet again, but did not set a date.

 

Given that sex in wedlock is hardly sinless ipso facto, I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of children born in wedlock are so conceived; so it seems to me the better question is, why wouldn't He?

Because...?

 

For the former that I will say is for another thread. Not the Religion section. I'll only say that I'll forgive them for not having a politically neutral prayer because it's their house.

As for him asserting how right he is, well that just tells me he is not open minded to different ideas and humbling himself to the possibility that he does not have all the answers.

 

Basically I agree

Once I had a (conservative) close friend who started edging the discussion toward politics,
I politely explained to him that we should not go down that road in the interest of preserving our friendship. Everything has been peachy since then

The reality of our lives is that mostly we cannot impact others religious or political views. Certainly participation on this forum will quickly demonstrate that reality. So why ruin a meaningful personal relationship to pursue a meaningless arguement?

IMO, I would be much more interested to use the described opportunity to learn more about how life works for these quiverful folks... I don't want to be like them but am curious to learn about them

 

Not seeing the connection. Do I have to be able to prove or disprove the Riemann Hypothesis to be perfectly confident that 1+1=2?

 

He said many things over long chains of thought. There were moments where I disagreed with him but stayed silent to keep the peace and not to expose what I believe. He often started with 'I know that...' or 'It is true that...' and then followed it with something I found objectionable.

 

How different was it from how you expected it to go? I mean, one might invite you to ones church even in polite conversation, but did you actually expect things like "Are you ready to repent?"?

Of course there are religious wackos out there, but I'm a bit weary of a trend I see among the non-religious to assume that all religious people are outright insane and that they are unable to do anything without a constant reference to their religion. Most people are reasonable in person, and that includes religious people.

 

When he invited me he said he wanted to talk to me about the Bible. That made me believe he was attempting to proselyte. I was predicting after he spoke about how great his faith is, he would ask me about my faith and my current direction in life. That would follow by him telling me to 'return to the savior'.

As for religious people being insane, well religious terrorism and televangelists don't help in making the image of the religious look good.

It was only 50% what I expected. Him talking about his experience was the half that met my expectation. He did not interrogate me about my life and beliefs so that was the surprise. I managed to ask my questions by asking them politely when he brought up things that tied in to those questions and when there was a pause in his talking.

 

Yeah, I guess you assumed he would proselyte, and that is what he did, albeit not so aggressively.

Tell me, out of interest, what impact do you think his manners had on your probability to convert? I.e. do you think he made a better job out of converting you through good manners than he would with being confrontational? I don't suggest that you are likely to convert either way, but given your experience of his trying to convince you, do you think manners or being confrontational is more effective?

Certainly, that's kind of my point. We shouldn't assume that religious people are like that just because media gives more room to televangelists and terrorists. Even with the arguable craziness that comes with being a normal religious person, we shouldn't couple that to the craziness of a suicide bomber.

 

I think aggressive proselyting is more effective at winning converts over at a faster rate although these converts tend to slip away because of omissions of details and deception by the missionary that they are actually friends. They are only friends as far as your church attendance goes.

Doing it the way he did made me feel he really wants to be my friend by being non judgmental. Perhaps his way would win over less converts, but that's only because the process of winning somebody over is slower. However these converts will less likely have the feeling of being deceived.