False Gods And False Satans

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    For a long time, political correctness had any number of people believe that the Western civilization was the root of all wrongs done against women. Then the Muslims invaded, and that claim could no longer be credibly made, as the Muslims are worse by standards of feminism than any place in the West. So now these people are having to decide whether to look like complete idiots and traitors and side with Muslims, or to admit their error and side with their own countries in which they have enough rights to make their ridiculous claims.

    The politically correct created a false Satan. They decided that there was a single root of evil. Of course they were wrong. But also wrong had been the people who made the Western civilization their god. When you create a false god, it is only a time before somebody comes along and instead calls him Satan. False gods and false Satans create one another.

    We see this with just about everything that is out there. Government. Corporate system. Men. Women. Jews. Reason. Faith. Feelings. Ego. Soul. Science. Capitalism. Whatever may be one's interests, if one is clever enough he could make it look like the definition of good. Then someone whose interests do not correspond with his own will then come along and say that it is the definition of evil.

    Both will be dead wrong.

    The Western civilization is neither God nor Satan. Neither is anything else listed above. All of these can have both positive and negative outcomes, usually a mix. Neither business nor labor are good or bad; both are capable of both. Neither men nor women are good or bad; both are capable of both. Neither government nor private sector are good or bad; both are capable of both. Same most certainly is the case for the Western civilization. Anything human can be good or bad. That is because anything capable of choice can choose to be good or bad, and is in just about all cases a mix of both.

    So these people created a false Satan, and they are being met with a real-life refutation that they cannot deny. Muslims are more misogynistic than even the Western conservatives. A much uglier Satan is staring them straight in the face. They can no longer fool people as easily. Then these Muslim dudes come to places like Sydney and Oslo and gang-rape young women and teach young men in bad neighborhoods to be even worse to women than they had been before. So they have a choice: Either continue with their ever-more-obviously ridiculous standpoint, or recognize what is patently obvious and correct the bullshit that they are teaching the kids.

    Are these people the only ones who pull tricks of this kind? Absolutely not. It is fashionable in many places to see the corporate mindset as “reality” and anyone who is not a part of it as not living in the real world. Now the corporate world is real enough; but it is ridiculous to say that it is reality. The Sun is reality. Planet Earth is reality. China and India are reality. The rainforest is reality. Corporate mindset is not reality, it is a mindset. You do not leave “reality” or “real world” when you think in other ways than how it wants you to think. What you are doing instead is acquiring a more complete view of reality. Then, if you go back to the corporate world, you do so with a more informed understanding of the world; and if you do not, you still have a more complete understanding of reality than you did when you were in it.

    So now we see the corporate mindset being elevated to being a God; and – surprise surprise – what do we see is a rise in socialist agitation, where the corporate world is being painted as Satan. Once again, if you create a false God, it is only a matter of time before someone comes along and inverts it and says that it is Satan. The correct solution is to call things by their proper name. The corporate world, the government, the Western civilization, and anything else listed above, is neither Satan nor God. They are human phenomena which, like all human phenomena, can be good, evil, or a mix.

    So Hobbes, then Communists, stated as much as that the state was God. Then the libertarians, anarchists and some conservatives stated instead that it is Satan. It is neither of the above. The state consists of people. So do all sorts of private entities. There is no reason to expect people within the state and people outside the state to be better or worse than one another. Governments can be good and governments can be bad. Private power can be good and private power can be bad. In Western democracies, where governments are elected, official, accountable, checked and balanced, while entities like Texas Oil and the Church of Scientology are not, there is adequate scrutiny of the government and not adequate scrutiny of private entities, allowing these private entities to get away with abuses that are not allowed the federal government.

    With ego, we see some people seeing it as the source of all evil and others as the fountainhead of progress. Some people worship genius or risk-taking or love and others name such things narcissism. Some people worship the mind and others say that reason is cold or immoral. Some people say that unconditional obedience to whatever any given society wants is the definition of good and others say that any kind of conformity is evil. False gods beget false satans. In fact no human phenomenon deserves either deification or demonization. Everything listed above, and more, can go right or wrong.

    So it is time that these fallacies be seen through. No human phenomenon is God. No human phenomenon is Satan. Call things by their proper names. Anything human can go right or wrong. And that is as much the case for the Western civilization as it is for all other things listed above.
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your opening post is exceptionally well written.

    I saw an interesting documentary a few years ago
    that presented a powerful case that large organizations tended
    to behave more and more like a psychopath as they began to deal with
    larger and larger amounts of money and power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_(film)
     
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  3. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should corporations make decisions emotionally? Not really following the point since the whole notion of using reason is always going to mirror psychopathy. There are worse things than rational decision making in this world particularly when they operate in such a complex and unforgiving legal climate.
     
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  4. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    It is interesting how in personal interactions this kind of thing is called manipulation and in corporate world it is called strategic thinking.
     
  5. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is more critical thinking. You can call it strategic thinking for business if you want; clinical thinking in the world of medicine, etc., but it is basically all the same thing--using reason to apply facts. In business, those facts are largely statistically driven. There was a study a few years ago out of Harvard that reached the conclusion that the more analytical people are, the less religious they become, so as for your OP, it would stand to reason the more religious people are, the less analytical they are, and, therefore, the more susceptible they are to false Gods and Satan, religions and prophecies, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  6. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    The analytical people become religious when they are confronted with evidence for God.
     
  7. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Since there is no "evidence for god" analytical people do not become religious.
     
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  8. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Faith isn't about evidence. It is about intuition.
     
  9. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Faith is self delusion IMO!

    The desire to believe in something that offers a promise of "something better to come" is a strong one but the term caveat emptor applies. What is being sold and what will you get for what you give? Intuition should tell you that what is being offered is an illusion and what is being asked is more than it is worth.
     
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  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If faith adds to a person's life in terms of values, direction, community, purpose, focus, etc, then those are tangible benefits which the person intuitively feels is worth it. That you receive no benefit from someone else's faith does not make that faith "self delusion". That you seem to think you should be able to determine what others believe or don't believe, however, is, at the very least, self-delusion.
     
  11. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Not at all sure how you came to that conclusion from what I posted!

    The concept of faith is the spiritual belief in the existence of a "deity" and a "reward" for "believing" in the existence of said imaginary deity.

    That has nothing whatsoever to do with the "values, direction, community, purpose, focus, etc" that are offered by religion. FTR all of those can be obtained without religion being involved.

    So faith is just a self delusion in certain concepts that have no evidence of existing which is why the self delusion, AKA faith, is required.

    Nowhere did I claim that I must be able to "determine what others believe or don't believe".
     
  12. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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  13. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You are making the mistake of conflating spirituality with religion.

    I am a spiritual atheist!

    What is termed a "spiritual state" can and has been measured by science. It is a deep meditative state of mind and it can be found in other mammalian species therefore it is not specific to only humans. Hardly surprising since this occurs in the oldest structure in the brain itself.

    So logically what we call spirituality has physical evidence and therefore it exists.

    What does not exist is any connection between this state of mind and any religious deity. A spiritual state of mind is NOT evidence for the existence of a deity. Religions have nefariously co-opted the spiritual state of mind as "evidence" of their deities but since it is a purely subjective experience for each individual it cannot be "evidence" of anything other than what it is, a state of mind.

    Are there aspects to this spiritual state of mind that we have yet to discover? It would be foolish to assume that we won't given how little we know about at present. What we do know is that if we disconnect certain parts of the brain we can have an "out of body" experience. We know that certain drugs cause spiritual experiences.

    We do have much to learn in this area but to erroneously conflate spirituality with religion is to make a huge mistake.

    Religion is based upon myths and fables.

    Scientific knowledge is based upon the scientific method.
     
  14. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    My experiences were never drug-related. If the brain is created by God, then it will contain within itself parts that could awaken it to spiritual experience. In my case, it wasn't just "spiritual states"; it was having experiences that had correspondence in the outside world, which would not happen if the experience came from drugs or from mental illness. I used to be an atheist as well, but I do not have the luxury of such beliefs. Once again, read my link; I speak a lot on this matter. An honest person does not deny something happening just because it contradicts his worldview. Instead he applies the experience to correct the worldview to a more honest one.
     
  15. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    I replied as I did because I had read your link.

    That you are incapable of recognizing the facts when provided effectively nullifies your claims.

    Have a nice day!
     
  16. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    What facts?
     
  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    :roflol:

    Thank you for proving my point that you are incapable of recognizing the facts.
     
  18. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    Sir or Madam, I very much can recognize facts. That is why I corrected my worldview when faced with evidence such as what I wrote in the link.
     
  19. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You utterly and completely failed to recognize the facts about the spiritual state of mind that I provided.
     
  20. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    "Muslims are more misogynistic than even the Western conservatives. The Western civilization is neither God nor Satan.They can no longer fool people as easily. Then these Muslim dudes come to places like Sydney and Oslo and gang-rape young women and teach young men in bad neighborhoods to be even worse to women than they had been before. Are these people the only ones who pull tricks of this kind? Absolutely not. It is fashionable in many places. Now the corporate world is real enough. The rainforest is reality. Corporate mindset is not reality. What you are doing instead is acquiring a more complete view of reality. So now we see the corporate mindset being elevated to being a God; and – surprise surprise – what do we see is a rise in socialist agitation, where the corporate world is being painted as Satan. Once again, if you create a false God, it is only a matter of time before someone comes along and inverts it and says that it is Satan. The correct solution is to call things by their proper name. The corporate world, the government, the Western civilization, and anything else listed above, is neither Satan nor God."


    Muslims are more misogynisitic than the Western conservatives. (Fact of Opinion)? The Western civilization is neither God nor Satan (Fact or Opinion)? Muslim males enter into places like Sydney and Oslo and gang-rape young women and teach other young males in the bad neighborhoods to be worse to women that they had been before. (Fact)? Sydney and Oslo is seeing a crisis? Are these people the 'ONLY' ones pulling tricks? Absolutely NOT. It is 'Fashionable' in many <other> places. Corporate world is real. Rainforest is reality. Corporate mindset is not reality. Corporate mindset(s) <get> elevated to being a God... Corporate world is being painted as Satan (or oppressive, distressful, undesirable, enemy, foe). Acquiring a more complete view of reality might mean to see that this world is full of both the 'good' and the 'bad', the 'Godly' and the 'Satanically'?

    The next segments of questionings might be: What the heck is wrong with the male Muslims? Are their parents 'NOT' teaching them anything good? What are they 'smoking'. What sorts of drug cultures are they involved with? Etc...

    Immigration is a Political issue and Law. When unregistered 'anybodies' go into other places, it is an offense. A criminal offense. And then when the 'illegal' person goes and continues further illegalities, it becomes a covert lifestyle. But all in all, when Local Law Enforcement and Governments do not keep to their own Written Law, what can anyone expect? A 'free for all' form of living is tolerated regardless of legalities or illegalities.

    Countries from where 'migrants' flee from have shown themselves Countries which were unable to keep to their Own Written Law of 'right and wrong'. Having such large scale internal revolts/wars to cause mass migrations into other lands shows that their own Government was unable to keep their own citizens in binds and constraints to their own Constitution and their own Laws and Rules of Society living. So in a nutshell, the migrants which have 'fled or are fleeing' internal wars have decided to walk across borders to seek safety instead of doing what many other people in other nations might do... which is to lock the doors and stay out of sight.

    And also in another nutshell, we are assuming that once every 'innocent' person has fled out of those countries and/or have been internally displaced, that the only ones who would be remaining would be the ones who are actively involved in bloodshedding. Because these internal wars are not between the 'people'... It is between the Government and its defectors. Those who have chosen to remain with the Government are the ones that have gotten 'internally displaced'. Unless their Government has given the 'option' of migrating into other lands with undocumented or with fast, half legal documents. But putting the weight on their Government with its current leaders is the same as putting the weight on every other National Government with their current leaders. Accepting undocumented persons is not in their Constitution and for cases of migration due to internal war, there are only a certain number of persons every Nation can receive. To begin to 'break Constitution' on grounds of empathy and sympathy will not put up defenses but will rather welcome any for a 'sad speech'. And giving a 'sad for me' speech is a form of lie many persons have been involved in to be able to receive 'goods and services'. The 'sad for me' speeches are even being tried to be pulled in Criminal Court cases.

    But at least there is some evidence that there is internal war in those places.. Maybe NOT in their ENTIRE country but in some cities and towns and such... It would be like saying that if a Confederate versus Union 'internal conflict' was occurring in New England and Maine and Rhode Island, the world would believe all of the UNITED STATES was in a state of internal conflict. But this would not be true. And so you have the Main Stream Media or any other Media giving only what they want.. They might not be showing the 'entire' picture.

    And when it comes to this level, citizens have to let go and trust Government to do their proper jobs. And not getting too involved with their work might help them have a clearer and more sound mind to deal with what is actually going on..

    The fear begins to arise when Law Enforcers begin siding with 'the abusers of themselves' rather than those who want peace and quiet and safety.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"


    It does NOT say 'homosexuals'... It says abusers of themselves with mankind... This can refer to any person who 'abuses themselves' with other 'mankind'. It could be excessive drug usage??

    733. arsenokoites
    From arrhen and koite


    730. arrén
    male, man.

    2845. koité
    bed, chambering, cohabitation

    What other 'groups' of persons, besides a group of 'males', join together to fire up bongs and meth bowls and beer bongs and conspiracies and schemes?? It's the cohabiting of 2 or more 'males' which come up with such practices.. I've never seen 2 or more 'females' conspiring together to take over countries and lands and such...
    But since such 'wrong' practices is 'fashionable' in many other places, it would not be surprising if they did.

    Crime might be becoming 'fashionable' and the Police might be standing back and admiring their adornments.

    As far as homosexuality is concerned.... You would need at least 2 males to join together for any act to occur, right? Some have 5 or 6 join together...

    Some 'hetero' males have 5 or 6 join together to get excessively drunk on Saturdays.

    These men who 'gang rape' have 5 or 6 who join together to carry out their acts...

    Even Criminals need another 'partner', whether it be partner or victim.. But it takes 2 for an act.

    And remember that the Greek word for 'man', Anthropos, could refer to the Anthropological race of human beings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  21. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Do you see a 'wife beater'? Do you see a 'husband neglector'? Do you see a 'neighbor hater'?

    Abusing with other mankind, regardless of what the 'abuse' might be.


    1 Corinthians 6:9
    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"


    This does not say that homosexuals are excluded from the kingdom of God. Sin is sin regardless of what the 'act' is. And an abomination is an abomination just as 'lying lips' is an abomination to The Lord.

    Proverbs 12:22
    "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight."


    But that does not mean that every person that has lying lips will not enter into the Kingdom of God.

    The persons who 'abuse', regardless of with who, needs to 'turn' from their evil if they want to stop being an abuser. And if a person wants to remain an abuser, how would anyone think that he will enter into The Kingdom of God?

    People who continue being reckless drivers are abusers of themselves with mankind, so it appears to be.

    You can't be a reckless driver if there is noone else on the road with you.

    And so to be 'seen' as a reckless driver by others, can be a 'fashionable' apparel for the driver.

    the 10 minutes of 'fame' concept?






    Video taping and uploading is more fun with others....





    Living in communities with paid lands and mortgages and homes with public parks and public roads being unwilling to follow the ways of Law. It can be scary..

    Who lives in those nice homes? Are these children theirs? These kids are not 'Terrorists'... These kids don't belong to Al-Qaeda ...These kids are not Taliban. They look like every day high school youths. If not high school, then college. If not college, than unemployed.

    Unemployed with rubber tires and gasoline to burn.

    From the looks of their car, they probably still live with their parents. I mean, they would need a drive way to park their cars in at night, wouldn't they?

    It's sad that their parents might not even be aware of what their own children are involved with when they are not at home. They might go back home, sit down, have dinner and talk wonderful things with the family only to go out the next day to find more fun.

    So if anything, maybe the Police's lack of Law enforcing is their way of showing respect to these kids' parents. The Police doesn't want to add any unnecessary heartache and burden upon the parents. But it seems that they don't mind that other families might have the burdens placed on them.

    If they are not true police.. then they got their hands on a Police Vehicle..

    So hardly should talks be on persons of a certain 'faith'. The talks should be on persons of 'lack of faiths'.

    In every society, there are Laws which were designed and implemented to be kept for the safeguarding and welfare of the residents. It may not have too much to with these Laws but it might have to do with those who are given certain 'authorities' above and beyond those of civilians to keep the society safe and well. When these persons 'defect' on their job duties while still receiving bi-monthly pay checks, they are not being a 'good citizen' of the Community nor a good 'role model' of society.

    Individual persons of any 'faith', if they are trying to live peaceably and quietly in their own rights, when their rights are being violated by not having the Laws being enforced, might begin to find ways and means to keep their own safety and well being in place by however way they might be able to muster up.

    And if an entire 'head' of Authority, whether it be State of Federal, cannot stop or step in on behalf of their own State and Federal Laws, other citizens of that State and Nation begin to be torn down and thrown aside. Everyday Professionals, everyday laborers, everyday Tax payers, will all begin to be effected..

    There is a foolish thing I have witnessed. A person who's hurt feelings at one time caused him to never turn from his 'oath' for justice regardless of the changing of times and people. Their 'pride' in their 1 decision, to them, cannot be broken even IF circumstances and situations which caused him to make such a decision changed. There is a little something 'new' everyday and to 'keep' to an oath sworn 5 or 10 years ago and still being claimed as applicable today is 'Prideful' and foolish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  22. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    It's more likely that person's unwillingness to change his 'oath' which is causing his family, friends and community to remain locked in the circumstances of how it might have been 5 or 10 years ago. His set 'oath' is 'setting' in the wrongs for which he made the oath for in the first place. Otherwise, how might he change his own oath??

    When the circumstances are not changing while everything around them are, you have to begin becoming suspicious as to why your circumstances are not changing when everything else is... Nothing remains unchanged in this world..

    Presidents change, Congressmen change, Politicians change, School Superintendents change, Teachers change, school curriculum change... How can it be with all these changes that a particular person or persons would not? The answer might be a simple one. That person still is under the care of his parent(s) and still living dependently to them. And it is because of such a circumstance that the person will not change. He/she has not faced the responsibilities of 'surviving' in this world with what and how that person knows with what and how to survive with. And if not living 'at home', living close enough 'to home' could be regarded similarly.

    Both circumstances are as 'security'. Even with the mass migrations into Europe and such, they are always near other like minded persons. They will always remain near to their other Syrian friends. They will always remain near to their Sudanese Friends. They will always remain close to their own race even when in foreign Nations. And rarely will you see the Syrian migrants making friends with the Sudanese migrants. They will remain within their 'own' even while living among the many yet not keeping to National Laws and Constitution nor showing proper respect to the citizens who were there before their arrival. We have to remember that each Nation has their OWN Constitution just as each US STATE has their OWN STATE Constitution. Without a State Constitution, there is no recognition of being part of National Constitution.

    California wanted to become an independent Nation within the United States. They have a State Constitution. Their State Constitution is accepted by the Nation as theirs. If they wanted independence as a separate Nation, they would have to form another Constitution geared for those who are living in that 'territory'. Not all might agree with the new Constitution, but some might not mind. They would need to form such first before seeking independence and after and if they were granted independence as a 'Country' or 'Nation', they would have to form ways for International Trade, Commerce, Liasons, Politicians, etc. to be part of the International Community of Independent and Grouped Constitutions. They might have to come up with their own form of currency. They will have to establish their own 'public and private' sectors... etc... In fact, they might have their own unique area code digits and zip codes. Addresses might appear different, and it might be a new nation.

    California was founded by Mexicans. It was established by the Mexicans. The first home architecture attests to this. They are still around to this day. Giving California back to the Mexicans and to Mexico might be a good thing or it might not be. But the whole agenda should not be decided upon by the few or many Mexicans who live there. California has a population of over 39 Million residents. Each member who has some part of keeping California California either through their tax dollars or Community participation should have a voice or at least be informed and asked on their opinions.


    And so mentioning false gods and false satans and True God and satans in the context of Societal Living is a dangerous ground to tread upon. Referring to such persons as Lawful or Unlawful might be more expedient. I don't know of any 'religion' or 'religious faith' which commands one to go out to rape and pillage but calling male Muslims, or those submissive to Allah, as such is saying that Islam is a 'religion and faith' of raping and pillaging. So why has noone gotten to read for themselves The Qur'an if it actually condones and commands such acts like rape and pillaging to be carried out? At least this way, they know what to expect to find and see in those submitted to Allah.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This question takes on a much more serious tone when we begin to discuss potential remedies for serious diseases that some huge companies are making billions off.
     

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