Could Poland be kicked out of the EU? Donald Tusk issues ultimatum

I suppose ignoring the EU's temper tantrums is an option for Poland

 

Right. Suspending Polish voting rights is not important. Voting in the EU is not of great importance, national actors remain the most vital. People didn't look to the EU following the financial crisis, but to Germany. People don't look to the EU to solve the refugee crisis, but to France.

What matters for the Poles is the free trade zone and some crumbling semblance of unity against Russia. More and more they look to other Central European countries for political unity. The Three Seas Initiative is probably too ambitious, and the Visegrad Group too tame, but something along those lines is bound to sprout up as Central Europeans try to remain united against both Western Europeans and Russians.

So the Poles and the Hungarians can make a big show of their defiance, but ultimately they don't want to leave the EU. There's just not much of a reason to, and a host of reasons not to.

 

The British were forced to join the EU.
We consistently voted not to at every single opportunity, of which there have been a great many.

In every single member country of the EU millions of people have been forced to join the EU.
Directly against their personal wishes and in many cases, also against the democratic representation of their nation.

I would suggest to you that around 50% of EU citizens were forced to join it against their wishes. 100's of millions of people have been forced to join the EU.
It is fascism and tyranny and inherently socially malign in it's intent.


Should the Poles leave?
Well, here in the UK we compare British independence with American independence.

Americans didn't like our rule. So they rebelled and ended it.
Stung by this rejection, we changed our ways and granted other commonwealth countries, such as Canada and Australia much more independence.
A freer reign. We addressed with those countries the exact same complaints we had failed to address when Americans had made them.
The Commonwealth endures.

It is our expectation that because Britain has left over subjects such a immigration, that the EU will reform rather than lose more members.
You see, they really didn't think we'd leave. They really believed their own spin.
That the EU was so utterly fantastic that no one ever would. But it isn't.

So where before they simply did not believe they needed to reform, now know that they do.
They will.

Britain leaving the EU has had more say over EU policy than ever it could have had inside it.
The EU will now liberalise or be organically replaced by a superior diplomatic institution.


If the Poles wish to stay, the EU will have to back down.
What is needed in the EU is a complete purge of leadership.

By the looks of it, starting with Mr Tusk.

 

Which would be a credible excuse coming from anywhere else but from the EU, which demands Poland do the same.
And wants Poland to bury their constitution under EU constitution. And have a unified legal system under Brussels control.

So really, advice from socialists on democracy, I go deaf. No one needs listen to you on such subjects. Pretty much you are the worst the human race has to offer in this department.
The very worst.
When we seek to give example of how this can go wrong, you are the example we give. Not Poland.

 

Lol ...

You know fundamental democratic core values? I have doubts, because otherwise you would not write such BS bashing on the EU and about my country!
Poland enters the EU and has to fulfill as all others the EU core values and one are fundamental democratic things as written in my post before.
When the public TV stations are forbidden to send government critical reports and news and the free TV stations got restrictions and threats if they do to be switched off... when the President is allowed to implement the judges of the supreme court or to fire them if not liked by him alone without parliament control and right for objection, then are these critical threats to democracy in every country! This was seen so by about 1 million protestors in Poland and because these protests, Duda put this changes on ice!

And then you come with this BS of Anti-EU bashing and against my country? Are you serious? O man...

 

I'm sick of the bloody word 'Brexit' - we could just walk away and what could they do? Answer, nothing! So let's just do it ffs!

 

They = the EU can do much and much will harm the UK in reaction of it.
As with every divorce are things to settle ... and as with any divorce, the negotiations can be peaceful or dirty ... or something in between!

I am also personally so over with the word Brexit, because seldom was something as idiotic as this vote and the mountain of lies that many Britons have believed and still believe, what Johnson, Farrage and others have told them!
If I only think of the total BS, that with an exit from the EU the flood of EU regulations are over for the Brits, then I can only shake my head, which low brainers believe such a nonsense!
No, you are not rid of them if you want to continue to trade with the EU and want to export your products to the EU ... but with one difference: As a non-EU member, you do not have to decide anything more about these regulations, but only to follow them without any if and but ... Or you can forget to sell things in the EU! This is the fact behind!

But I do not want to argue about it anymore, and now I just want the British to leave the EU! They want it ... if only 51% of them ... so they should pack their things!

 

The big differences are that we can chose which, if any, we want to follow and which regulations and rules the EU will have to follow from the UK for things like access to fishing areas. We also don't have to keep handing over millions a week for your precious EU to squander.

 

That is the one and only reason they don't want us to go. And 'squander' is the right word. They'll miss us more than we'll miss them.

 

The big difference is that you who were hollowing at the mess the UK was in in the 70's, a laughing stock you were calling us, do not know that what got the UK out of that was joining the EU.

 

Mandelus

The EU as a concept is living on borrowed time, and I wouldn't want to be in yours shoes when that time runs out. In fact I wish it could be stopped from happening, but what is done is done. It was a bad idea from the beginning, and it is now proving to be exactly that.

 

No, anything you want to expert into the EU has to follow the EU rules!
And yes, about any fishing rights etc., UK has the saying in reverse!

And about these millions.... you remember these 350 million told by Farrage and where he 1 day after referendum confirmed that these digits are a lie? You know that since 1980's 60% of all paid money to Brussels comes back to the UK form Brussels?

And in reverse, yes, we are then also over with these idiotic and outrageous special wishes from London which no one else wants. As told ... you want to go, then go with god, but go and never start to complain and whine about the bad consequences you will have too ... and where these low brainers in London still started when millions of money to be paid to Brussels further are the topic due to fact that the UK has to fulfill some contracts further and where some low brainers thought they won't have to do!

 

Seems to me both sides are wrong here, the Polish president is wrong to try to squelch freedom of the press and the independence of the judiciary, and the EU president is wrong to try to force a sovereign nation into doing what he thinks is right. I hope it works out well for the Polish people.

 

Partially, I agree with you in some things. Personally, I find that the EU should stop its path to become a "United States 2.0" version, where the present countries like France, Poland, Germany, etc., are only something like Texas, Virginia, California as state inside. This is a forced marriage for me, which can't work due to fact of the masses of differences existing, starting with language and ending with tax system!
The EU was born to be an economic community of partners and close friends who make an internal market with all depending things that this work like common rules, norms and so on, no customs inside and whatever else. This works and this is a good things and right this made out of enemies friends and partners (and not only Germany vs. rest due to WW-2, also minor disputes between others). It is also Ok to have a depending administration for this to monitor and check that the rules are fulfilled by everyone and this must have also the legal rights to do so.

Even I will not say that the EUR is in general bad, I agree that EUR was implemented in worst way with making same bad errors and causing consequences which the USA made before with their USD before implementing the powerful independent FED. If they had done this too, the BS with Greece would not have happened, because Greece had not fulfilled the norms to be part of EUR community and lied about deficit more as heavy what everyone knew, but politicians of this time ignored it.

Anyway, here is Poland the topic, not the Brexit and and also the bashing on EU is nonsense in this case. There are simply fundamental democratic values which have to be fulfilled by contract and agreement with the EU and which the current Polish government wants to eliminate ... core values where majority of forum members here would go to protests if their own government would try to make!

 

Problem is that Poland signed a contract and agreements when becoming member of the EU and with this changes they eliminate it and will not fulfill them anymore. How to handle this?

 

The EU can do **** all to us.
NADA.

We are not married, there is no divorce. A trade agreement was entered into, but it was defaulted on, so we have annulled the agreement.

Now we are out of the EU, there is quite simply nothing left it can do.
The same however is not true in reverse.

So if we even think you are trying to **** with us, we are going to bomb you stupid.
Please bear that in mind.


We are perfectly happy to make products for you that meet your standards.
This has never been an issue for us.

You of course must be willing to do the same if you wish to sell yours here.

We have zero interest in telling you what standard of goods you must settle for and no interest in you telling us what standards of goods we must settle for.
None.

Our goods will meet your satisfaction or you are free to shop elsewhere.
If you don't wish to buy our goods, no problem. Carry on.

It's a big wide world.

 

What got us out was the discovery of North Sea Oil.

It allowed two things for us, number one, an income boost, number two we used that new fuel source to break the monopoly on "the means of production" that socialist revolutionaries were using against us to cripple the economy in their malign attempts to gain control of this nation.

Things are looking up.
The EU, didn't even exist in the 70's.

 

We no longer have any contracts with the EU.
The contract you thought you had with us, was illegitmate.
The special wishes London has were part of the agreement. You reneged on you end of it.
Pointless to be in any agreement with the corrupt.

Farage told the truth. You tell lies.

These "special wishes" it turns out are not so special at all and indeed shared by 100's of millions of people Europe wide.
You happen not to like them, but you don't speak for everyone. In fact the EU, doesn't speak for anyone. Anyone except a few socialist dingbats who thought they were about to take over the world.

What you should remember is that one size does not fit all. We all have different wants and needs and so we are all special.
Treat everyone as special and you can have a large and inclusive organisation. treat no one like they are special and you can't have anything at all.

We learned this the hard way. We had the greatest empire the world has ever seen. And this indeed was as tough a lesson for us to learn as it seems it is being for you to learn. So wise up, noobs.

 

Farrage told the truth and I lie ... lol.

You know that he himself told into cameras to have lied? O man... I see that you are helpless blinded. But Ok, your awaiking will be horror for sure, but this is not my problem. believe whatever BS if you want, it is yours!

 

Poland didn't sign up for these agreements. You made them with yourselves after Poland joined, and Poland clearly has not agreed to them.
When Germany and France signed up to agreements, they rapidly broke them. Fundamental fiscal rules were broken with about the first year of the EU. The CAP reforms were not implemented, and so on.
Poland is not such an important part of the EU. Nor Greece. Nor Cyprus. When they break agreements, even ones they never made, things are different for them. Because the EU is not even remotely democratic or just.

So what the EU needs to do is attempt to rule over less.
Less is more.

In those few things that all 27 countries can agree on, the EU can implement them.
Otherwise, it has no mandate or writ.

It's just a bunch of foreign diplomats in a palace somewhere.

 

Is it your position that UK is or is not a net contributor to the EU?
If you agree that it is, then Farage told the truth and you are telling lies.

I believe that is the truth. And I have never met anyone who doesn't believe that is the truth.
So either you know something the rest of the world doesn't, or you are a liar.

Be honest.
We don't make deals with dishonest people. No one does.

 

No I don't agree with you. The money from North Sea Oil was largely wasted to pay for the unemployed created by neo liberalism and it's destruction of our manufacturing sector. The oil certainly had the possibility of putting us on a good course for a sustainable future particularly if it had been Nationalised as Benn wanted but it was just wasted.

It was the EU that saved the UK and I know you do not listen to the news but just about everyone expects us to go down the tube - and I am talking about British people which is why so may people are quietly, fingers crossed trying to say maybe just maybe we will not really leave or at the worst be a member of EFTA or similar. Then all we will have lost by that vote which went so against the country is our ability to have a voice.

 

No one and I do mean no one, looks to the EU for advice on how to be democratic.
No need for Poland to listen to you lot in such a subject. You are fascists.

 

How did the EU save Britain in the 1970's fully two decades before it came into existence?
Answer: By using Doctor Who's TARDIS.

Now lets look at the common market.
A trade agreement between 5 or 6 countries in Europe.

We could make the case that Britains recovery was around the same time as we joined it. And we could attribute causation instead of just correlation perhaps.

Or we might be more nuanced and claim partial contribution to that recovery.
Lets try and get a sense of proportion. Around 2% of UK GDP comes from EU trade. And former EEC trade makes up the bulk of that trade.

So in the seventies it is perhaps reasonable to assume that UK GDP increased by around 1% due to our joining the EEC. Or EC or whatever it was.

A 1% gain in GDP and even a 10% GDP does not neatly explain Britain's economic recovery. That is a joke.
It's worse than a joke, it's a lie.

It's a lie told to deceive us. To manipulate the stupid into agreeing with the political agenda of a corrupt minority in the UK who will stop at nothing to rule the world or line their own greedy pockets at other peoples expense.

The nice thing about Poland? We're not paying for it any more.
That bribe which you wish to offer Poland in order to force them to follow your political agenda, we aren't paying it.
They are free of you now.

Sorry UK fascists, but Poland is none of your business. You will not export your **** from this country. You will not associate yourself with us.
You are still free to do so as an individual however. Please carry on in your own name on your time and at your own expense.

 

You know full well what I am talking about. Ok it was joining the EEC which has become the EU which the UK Parliament voted for and which the UK has already been given assurances she will not need to go for further integration in which out Brit Nationalists cannot bare to think of.