The Hitler-Stalin Pact (1939)

Hardly coordinated, it took the Soviets another two weeks, until Sept. 17 (the Nazis invaded Sept. 1) to get their troops moving into Poland. What I remember reading is that the Red Army simply couldn't move that quickly without prior warning, from a standing start.

 

Still co-ordinated...even if clumsily so

 

As if they had a choice?

Hitler almost conquered russia in the first year of the war and it took a combined effort of the East and West to defeat the nazi's

We needed russia and they needed us

 

Yep, history @ the time (& even now) is certainly twisty. The USSR signed a deal with the devil in the non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. & they split Poland between them, & then Germany invaded the USSR. (Which shouldn't have been a big surprise, Hitler since Mein Kampf had talked about taking the land & resources in Western Russia for a long time, & simply removing the existing population - he wanted to move in Aryans to populate the land.)

Yah, the Left in general approved of Marxism, @ least in theory, @ least early on - through WWII. The Soviet experiment degenerated economically & then politically & ideologically - into a mere dictatorship, but with an overarching ideology. Which didn't help them all that much - they still collapsed as a society because they couldn't put a workable value on labor. In practice, I think they tried to micromanage their economy far too much - it cost them more to administer trifles than it was worth. & eventually, when the costs outstripped their income, they collapsed.

The USSR was instrumental in saving the World from the Nazis. (That wasn't what they were trying to do - but when you're busy killing poisonous snakes, there's no time to ponder the long run.) You can make of that what you will - maybe God has some backhanded sense of humor.

 

Yep, & North Korea styles itself as the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea, & China as the People's Republic of China, & so on. I suppose they're paying an ironic tribute to Western style PR firms - the names are certainly impressive, & meant to invoke traditions that they have no intention of carrying out. & so with Nazi - Did Hitler himself ever labor a day in his life? Was he conversant with labor issues in Germany &/or Austria? Was he a card-carrying member of a labor union?

As far as I can tell, his economic policy was to blame the Jews & anybody else handy for all problems, rough them up, strip them of their professional licenses, hound them out of work, confiscate their goods (to divvy up with party functionaries & hangers-on), exile or imprison or kill them, & then keep looking for more victims - POWs, anybody would do. Of course, once you commit to pretending to be a shark, like a shark, you can never stop preying on people. If you stop, you die.

Yah, these wolves can call themselves whatever they want - it doesn't change the reality of the matter.

 

Sure, Stalin's choice was to fight or die, or resign. After some initial chaos, he chose to fight.

Did we need Russia (or the USSR, as they styled themselves)? It's an argument that still rages - the US War Dept. in Fall 1941 had estimated a peak US strength of 213 divisions - if USSR fell & the US & UK & remaining Allies had to fight on. (In the end, we only raised 90 divisions.) France collapsed, & UK was lucky to withdraw the bulk of the BEF, along with some French & other forces - but they all lost their heavy weapons & gear. UK was risk averse - they'd lost a lot of troops in WWI (so did the French), & Churchill & Montgomery & the UK General Staff were very cautious in committing their troops.

 

Yes. He burned towns and cities and plantations to the ground, and left civilians, black and white, to starve to death. 100's of thousands of 'freed' slaves died in 'property camps', of malnutrition and disease, denied the ability to go north. It was total war by napoleonic standards, a radical change from the norm by 19th century standards, certainly by the accepted doctrine of 'just war' as defined by Augustine and Aquinas.

They looted the slaves' houses as well, as they couldn't believe slaves could own property and decent clothes and the like and thought they were just hiding them for their masters. Not all slaves rallied to the Union Cause, despite what the revisionists that still support the Lincoln Myth keep telling schoolchildren; many black historians in the 1950's and later did the research. Most don't realize that the Todd family demanded editorial control over any book about Lincoln or the Civil War written using their family papers as primary sources, and early on Lincoln's two secretaries began the myth and determined the narrative. The Todds finally relinquished control of Lincoln's papers in 1947, and much more accurate histories began appearing in the mid-1950's and afterward.

 

The UK kept the Soviets in the war; without the early shipments the Brits sent Moscow would have fallen and Stalin would have caved, and ceased to be a factor. The Soviets were also dependent on the US and UK for most of the rest of the war as well. Their contributions are over-rated.

 

When you see someone parroting Trumpicana's "fake news" BS, you know they are devoid of critical thinking beyond a point.

If not, then how does the author of this thread apply his "logic" to France and England with compliance regarding Jews and signing a non-aggression pact with Germany?

 

Is this a sly word play on Arpaio and Bannon? Because it sounds like a sly word play on Arpaio and Bannon.

 

The sources I remember & looked @ say differently. Plantation Society was treated as enemies, former slaves were not. Food was freely commandeered, but the civilians were safe - if they offered no resistance. Resistance could be punished by firing plantations, mansions, warehouses, etc. Civilians & former slaves were supposed to be left with means of sustenance, & only Union officers were supposed to enter homes. Do you have a source? Railroads were destroyed, rolling stock was destroyed, don't know about bridges - possibly destroyed.

 

______
Of course that confirmed Hitler's idea that the Wehrmacht could overcome Russia even though the Nazi's were out numbered. After the war casualty lists showed that the losses were 1 German for 6 Russians, or one million to six million lost.

 

Railroads are easily rebuilt, and the north had far more than enough rolling stock, plus they controlled the river networks and coasts. They were exporting record crops and goods to Europe and South America as well; the war didn't make a significant dent in their economy. they simply didn't consider their 'freed citizens' important enough to disrupt their own gravy trains. They had the means to ship them out, the same way their supplies were coming in.

Before the war was even over, Lincoln's generals went on to conduct the same warfare against the indian tribes.

 

The Soviets relied on human wave attacks, very primitive. On their southern front, they were faced with irregular units largely made up of untrained conscripted old men and adolescent children, and would still have to launch two or three assaults to take positions.

 

Stalin was afraid of war with Hitler and tried to prevent it as much as possible. It was probably arrogance that caused Hitler to think he could win a war on two fronts at that time. Hitler depended on Stalin for 1/3 of his oil so at the start of war his reserves would be quickly used up. Hitler also thought he'd be able to bring oil fields in Russia back on line in no time. Oil shortages and transport issues early in the war stalled German offenses even in 1941.

I read Albert Speer's book. In it, he says the Germans stopped most research on the A-bomb in I think 1943. They knew they didn't have a big enough centrifuge to get the job done and thought the war would be long over by the time they got one. He said they sent much of their uranium to the factories for munitions.

The German jets were hurt by fuel shortages, attacks on air fields, and mostly engines. By this time in the war the German's had lost supplies of special metals needed to make the turbines. Having to make them out of softer metals caused them to last maybe 8 hours before major rework.

Von Braun said after the war the resources put into the V2 would have been better spent on the Wasserfall and similar SAM research.

 

See

• Endless frontier : Vannevar Bush, engineer of the American Century / by G. Pascal Zachary, c1997, The Free Press.

Subjects

• Bush, Vannevar, -- 1890-1974.
• Electrical engineers -- United States -- Biography.
• Mathematicians -- United States -- Biography.

He launched the Manhattan Project, helped create the military-industrial complex, & headed the Office of Scientific Research and Development during the war.

"By contrast, the Germans had never mounted a major program to build a bomb, nor reached any key milestones. ... Still, Bush was startled to learn from Alsos (the Alsos mission, spring 1944 - a scientific mission on atomic research in Germany & Italy) just how far behind the Germans were: for all their vaunted know-how they had little besides a few experimental reactors to show for their efforts. They had failed to separate U 235, the essential fissile element, and never did achieve a sustained chain reaction. ... At any rate, the Nazi program was inefficiently spread across as many as a dozen agencies The German Army, expecting a short war, had decided not to back an all-out effort to build a bomb. When the war dragged on, it was too late to change course."

(My emphasis - more in the book)

 

Hmm...., I see there are a number of history buffs out there. I wonder how many see that Progressives are attempting to create the next split of the United States as in the 1861 -1865 US Civil War.

 

Here's some info I've collected on the subject.
http://www.flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=12196&start=0

This is some of the most relevant stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hitler's+War+-+What+the+Historians+Neglect+to+Mention&sm=12
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hitler+Saved+Europe+From+Stalin&sm=12
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Who+Started+World+War+II?+by+Viktor+Suvorov&sm=12

 

They're not 'Progressives', despite the rhetoric; they're just an assortment of self-indulgent brats, neurotic sexual deviants, racists, traitors, and all influenced in their rhetoric by doped addled pseudo-intellectual dilettantes who loved them some Commies and Mao, took over the universities and public school systems, and are still dedicated to Soviet Cold War propaganda and sloganeering.