Is America Headed for a New Kind of Civil War?

The problem is, at least in Europe, that the immigrants include some of the most anti-liberal viewpoints that exist in the word today. The liberals who automatically support immigration are unintentionally swinging the society as a whole in an anti-liberal direction.

 

The Syrian Revolution which originally had the three no's. No to violence, no to sectarianism and no to outside interference was almost as soon as it got started destroyed by outside interference.

 

what you mean they are like you?

 

so Is America headed for civil war has turned into another Muslim bashing thread. Ah well, no surprise there.

 

I think your comments are factually incorrect - in fact, I know they are factually incorrect.

I live near Charlottesville, VA and I can tell you that the Federal government had nothing to do with the decision to remove the Lee statue and the violence that occurred on August 12.

The decision to move the statue and rename the park was made by the local authorities in Charlottesville, not the Federal government. While the park has already been renamed, the decision to move the statue was challenged in court and is currently being reviewed to determine whether or not the removal is legal under the state law governing monuments in Virginia.

As for the violence that occurred on August 12, that was perpetrated by Leftwing and Rightwing extremists that represent an insignificant number of people in America. If any government authorities were responsible for permitting the violence to occur, it was Charlottesville Mayor Michael Singer and Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe. Those two men were responsible at the local and state level for maintaining public order and safety at the August 12 protests. The Federal government was not responsible for maintaining security and Federal law enforcement agencies did not assist the local and state law enforcement agencies and the Virginia National Guard with maintaining order.

I have no idea where the preposterous claim that "the Feds began to view the symbols of the southerners as "a threat to territorial integrity" came from, but it is as baseless as it is absurd.

The controversy surrounding the Lee statue in Charlottesville is nothing unique and nothing new. For several years communities across the South have been removing statues from public areas and this will continue in the years ahead. As for the controversy surrounding them, the majority of people on both sides have been willing to address this issue in a peaceful and lawful manner. The only people who have been willing to resort to violence are a small number of extremists who have a long history of violence.

America is not headed towards a new civil war that is even remotely similar to the Civil War that left half the nation in ruins by April 1865. While the extremists are trying to rally the majority to their sides and pit Americans against one other, the vast number of citizens do not support the extremists and their desires. The dynamics within the country and the people are nothing like they were prior to the fighting that began during the Missouri-Kansas Border War in the 1850s and was spread by firebrands like John Brown and Edmund Ruffin.

I'm sorry if we're going to disappoint many of you abroad, but we've learned many of the important lessons that people had yet to learn prior to the outbreak of hostilities in 1861. What you saw in Charlottesville is not the Tragic Prelude we saw in Bleeding Kansas...

 

No, I mean they are anti-gay, anti women's rights, anti-free speech, anti just about anything that classical liberals are for.

 

Thanks for the information and your opinion .... But ... For example the USSR. If someone told me in July 1991 that in August the USSR would cease to exist, I would never have believed it. And I think that no one in the world could imagine that the USSR would cease to exist. The same can be said about any country where a civil war occurred. Any war is always "unexpected". . .... therefore never say never.
Anything can happen. For example, oil will stop buying for dollars and start buying for yuan. (We know that in China opens a trading platform where oil will be bought for yuan. The consequences are obvious.)
I hope you do not need to explain what will happen when the US economy collapses?
Civil war in the US is inevitable. There are a lot of internal contradictions. The reasons can be different. But the result is one.
This is very bad. I mean - a civil war in a country with a nuclear weapon is dangerous for the whole world.

 

America is not headed toward the empty-headed pipe dream of a Civil War.

Sheesh.

 

No, not a "Civil War", not with armies of secessionists confronting national forces in guerrilla battles with 'liberated' enclaves claiming independence and that sort of thing, but there are important changes evolving.

The obstruction to Trump is unprecedented and those leading the effort are completely intolerant. This promotes the notion among those who support Trump that no reconciliation is possible, that they either must submit to whatever Trump's opponents demand or endure more of what we see.

There are just two possible outcomes; either Trump is driven from office or he persists in a highly obstructed presidency. What happens when his term is up? Either Trump's supporters accept that opposition to their views is so strong they must submit -and they vote for the opposition's leader (hopefully not Hillary again), or they entrench themselves to reaffirm their commitment to their views.

Trump's Administration is still relatively new and the opposition has plenty of time to obstruct and hobble the president, they bring more riots, protest, march and there will be voting next year. So far their antics seem to have the effect of solidifying Trump's support, but the opposition has plenty of resources and there will be many opportunities for Trump to make bad choices.

What will happen if Trump's supporters succumb and submit, if short of hounding the president from office, the opposition manages a level of obstruction that causes conservatives to doubt their candidate can overcome Democrat resistance, so they give up or abstain?

What can we reasonably anticipate awaits Trump's successor?

If Democrats managed to elect a president, would he be full of vindication, issue a slew of Executive Orders to undo whatever Trump's did, appoint Agency directors to regulate with a vengance, recommit with renewed fervor to whatever Paris Accord commitments, legalize all the immigrants, throw open the gates to everyone...?

Would there be no 'resistance' from conservatives, or would they take a page from the playbook liberals are drafting now?

 

The neo-Alt Right Trumpians will retrench whether Trump is driven from office and if they need to accept an alternative. They are stuck in the 1950s and will not change.

 

The purpose of this Board is to share opinions and information. If you have access to better information than I do, share it. Otherwise, your negative opinions of my opinions are just that--opinions.

Although some on here are just here to argue and propagandize, some of us are actually open to new data.

 

Then publish the data, please.

If I seem quarrelsome, accept my apology.

 

Opinions are often based on life experience.

Here's our initial interchange:

↑
Me:

An alternate explanation would be they were taking too much heat from the Swamp for cooperating with him, and cravenly jumped ship at the first excuse that presented itself.


You:

That is an inaccurate alternate explanation.



My opinion is based on my direct experience with political animals and how they operate.

What is your retort based on?

 

On your perception of the sociology of D.C. Trump is, if there is a swamp, the biggest animal in it.

 

Well... that is just your opinion, not necessarily a fact, so it is highly inaccurate of you to claim that my opinion is inaccurate.

 

"Drain the Swamp" is ambiguous, I think it refers specifically to the legislature and lobbying establishments and aims to reduce their symbiotic relationship and self-interested influence on policy. There is an entire environment in Washington DC that is involved in extracting funds from the legislature, it is populated by experts of lengthy tenure in both government and corporations benefiting from the extractions. These people know the decision-makers and their levers, they know the agendas and agencies involved and they constantly bargain with each other for whatever benefits they can get. The net effect is a government run in their interests that seems to ignore what the nation actually needs. Trump wants to stop this.

 

My highly accurate opinion refutes your inaccurate opinion.

 

No, he does not.

 

The civil war in the US is already on. You just need to take off the rose-colored glasses.

 

You are not equating the cultural changes of the last sixty years with a Civil War, are you?

 

Play it again, Sam.

 

The Federal Government has the armed forces and access to all the intelligence services including the DHS so anyone a serious threat will be dealt with as a domestic terrorist, and without their leaders most of these types won't have the will to fight and they don't have popular support. Your average American just wants to work, feel safe and not have things to worry about picking up a gun to fight demands the will to fight and a chance of winning. All these elements will do is strengthen the government at all levels and cause law enforcement to become more militant.

 

Nice of you to raise those "cultural changes of the last sixty years", this is probably the root of the trouble we have now. Those changes gradually brought more women into the workplace, then improved their opportunities there, made daycare more accesible and now pushes for more equal remuneration; they brought about separate but equal, then mandatory integration and Affirmative Action followed by compulsory school busing, to now include in an effort to reverse discrimination a variety of people like the alternatively life-styled, Asians and Hispanics (or any other minority) who never endured slavery; the cultural changes went from recognizing sodomy behind closed doors is none of the government's business, to requiring spousal benefits for homosexual companions, banning the expression of preference for traditional marriages, compulsory intergender bathrooms and now teaching children in kindergarten about homosexual intercourse.

This has been a gradual process, small gains incrementally make each step seem like the sensible follow-up of the one preceding it until we've reached a point where a substantial portion of the population is saying we've gone too far, we don't want people banned from Facebook for criticizing an article in Vogue about teaching pre-schoolers about anal sex, we don't think any church should have to perform gay marriages, we disagree with granting undocumented immigrants the right to vote.

The "Civil War" is about liberals confronting people who don't want to take the next incremental step down their road to perdition.

 

Who wants silly people saying "we've gone too far, we don't want people banned from Facebook for criticizing an article in Vogue about teaching pre-schoolers about anal sex, we don't think any church should have to perform gay marriages, we disagree with granting undocumented immigrants the right to vote."

When you come back to reality, I will be glad to discuss real points with you. To suggest that any of the above is the New Real or the New Normal is ludicrous.

 

The "new normal" is to ban anyone expressing anything that disagrees with the liberal view, to bar anyone from raising anything one disagrees with from one's "safe-space", to exempt anyone from what they alone perceive is a 'microagression', to ban whatever anyone thinks may be "triggering", to swing a bat at everyone who doesn't support what you advocate, to brand as Islamophobes those who question the sensibility of opposing Sharia laws, as homophobes those who don't think government should endorse gay marriage, transgender bathrooms or homosexual practices being taught to children and as racist misogynists all who support Trump. This is the new kind of Civil War, one that manifests complete intolerance for any differing from purported advances of the "cultural changes" over the past sixty years.