I study liars. I've never seen one like Donald Trump

Yeah, it's a good question. You already know how I feel about Hillary. On Trump, ask me in 3 years. I will be ready to judge his presidency as he nears the end of his first term.

 

Lying comes in many forms. It can be an overt lie (Claiming 2+2=5, knowing that 2+2=4). It can a lie of omission - deliberately telling only half the story. It can be a half-truth - telling the truth about some aspect of something but then lying about some other aspect. "Transference", blaming others, is a form of lying. "Minimizing" is a form of lying. So is "exaggeration". Showing false sincerity, sympathy, empathy ... all a form of lying.

When you have your loyal minions copy/paste a classified email and send it to you so the classified header won't be on it, and then say you did not receive emails "marked" classified, that's a form of lying. It is deception. Yeah, it wasn't "marked" classified, but the content was classified.

I honestly believed Hillary lied when it would have served her better to tell the truth. But she had so much confidence in her ability to lie convincingly, she just .... had to. It was her default ... "Just lie about it". She used all the forms of lying ... smoothly, convincingly, without remorse or conscience. I've never seen anything like it from a major politician.

Trump can't even hold a candle to her on this count. She wins, hands down.

 

So the lone "lie" you can come up with is pretty subjective.

You admit the e-mails weren't classified at the time yet you still act like stating that fact is a lie.

Okay then

But Trump is a "benevolent" liar.

Sure...

He lies about EVERYTHING. He lies about Congressional Bills...he lies about policy...he lies to and about foreign leaders

He lies about foreign policy

But you give him a pass because you LIKE some of the lies he tells and you convince yourself that those aren't lies.

Great

 

Politicians suspend morality when it is politically expedient, Trump in his flamboyant style just takes it to the next level. The Prince by Machiavelli is a good read on the subject.

 

"Next Level" is an understatement.

Trump is completely divorced from reality. To him there is no real truth. He says whatever he thinks will make him look good or serve his immediate purpose.

That is pathological sociopathc behavior. I've been around a few such people and the best course of action is to stay as far away from them as possible.

Unfortunately we have one such person as our President.

Oddly...from reading the above posts you all seem to understand that and somehow don't care.

 

Just for the hell of it, I went to the WaPo list. What a joke. They just turned politispeak that every politician spouts into a formal LIST OF LIES. Now we can hang them all.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ms-database/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.289b709aff04

 

Again Hillary and her serial lies would be a life time study for the OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You notice that no one is saying Trump doesn't tell a lot of lies, only that Hillary told a lot of lies, or that Obama lied. It has become a defense of deflection and degree. My candidate doesn't lie as much as yours...

"still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." Paul Simon

 

must not have studied to well, you missed Obama and Hillary.

 

yeah we noticed no one ever says Hillary lied despite her serpent like tongue. Why do you think you no lefties have ever accused Hillary or Obama of lying?

 

Liar need enablers

 

Yes, I see a big difference between the two as well.

One was competent, experienced, and already recognized as a worthy world leader. One was respected by Wall Street and a the more than half of main street that didn't vote for Trump.

The other was a crooked real estate developer who had been steadily squadering his inheritance on a series of disasterous deals until he discovered his true talent, playing angry clown to an unsophhisticated mob on reality TV. The same talents required of a shock jock or a right wing talk radio host.

Trump does lie, always has done, and never thinks twice about it. Truth is a meaningless concept to a man like Donald Trump. He will say anything to anyone to get him through the moment.

After years of watching Fox News, he has studied how to pander to that audience. What code words to use, what stories to spin, and what lies to tell.

Let's consider your list.

"I don't think he lied about wanting to keep companies operating in the U.S."
I doubt that he really cares. He likes to take credit, and takes every opportunity to take direct credit for any decision by any company to keep a few jobs in the US, and goes conpicuously silent when things go the other way."

He promised to send up a tax bill to elimate incentives for companies to move jobs overseas and remove incentives for companies to move their earning overseas. The actual bill does neither.

"I don't think he lied about wanting border security."

He doesn't really care about this either. "Border Security" is a play to white resentment and fear. Fox and right wing media serve Wall Street by scaring working class whites into blaming "the other" for job losses and declines in opportunity. It is an enormously successful strategy. Trump supercharged it by dreaming up this idiotic wall idea as a symbol for the resentment theme.

Wall Street broke the US economy and almost plunged the world into the worst depression in a century. But you never say a conservative condemn Wall Street here, or anywhere else. Indeed, who do the people in places like Youngstown or Peoria blame? Not the guy who closed their plant and moved the jobs to China. They blame Mexicans.

"I don't think he lied about defending the 2nd Amendment."

I don't think he cares. But is an easy play to the same audience. Selling fear and xenophobia is a big part of the right wing fantasy. He was for gun control before he was against it. Again, white resentment is a big part of his play here. Gun companies and the NRA rejoiced over the Obama Presidency. Having a black man in the white house was the greatest selling opportunity they every had. And they never wasted a chance to rattle the white fear cage for more gun sales and inflated prices (they even manufactured a bogus right wing meme about a mythical government driven ammunition shortage).

Gun sales collapsed after Obama left office.

"I don't think he lied about wanting trade fairness."

He doesn't know enough about trade or trade policy to have a real program beyond shouting slogans to the mob. He gave the Chinese their biggest wish on day one of his Administration. In so doing he undermined all of our allies in the region and weakened the effort to stem the tide of Chinese regional hegemony. Farmers and small businessmen in the US who invested in plant and personal on the anticipation of the opening of Asian markets are feeling the impact of Trump's incompetence.

"I don't think he lied about unleashing our military against our enemies and defeating ISIS."

Do you really trust an idiot like Trump to lead the US in a real international crisis?

ISIS in Iraq was on the ropes before Trump became President.

"I don't think he lied about wanting to restrict immigration from countries whose immigrants might be terrorists."

Well, he didn't. Instead he picked an apparantly random list of countries, none of which had Trump branded properties in them. He exempted the country the contributed most of the 9/11 terrorists from the list.

"I don't think he lied about wanting to reduce taxes."

He doesn't really care. He cares about the appearance of wanting to do so. He left the work up to the GOP Congress. Congress, knowing that Trump is disinterested in the real work of governing, doesn't care what is really in the tax bill, so they have let every lobbyist with a checkbook decorate the "tax reform" christmas tree, knowing full well that Trump is so desperate for a "win" that he will sign whatever they put in front of him and declare victory.

Trump's promises of tax simplification, closing corporate loopholes to pay for middle class tax cuts and not running up the deficit have all been quietly forgotten.

"I don't think he lied about wanting to replace Obamacare"

He never really cared. He was for single payer universal health care before he was against it. Here again, he is both too lazy and too indifferent to the actual work of governing to involve himself in the details. Instead, he sat back and let Congress do the world. He belatedly campaigned for the second attempt to push a bill through the House, and then attacked the finished product. (this is another Trump trait, trying to be on all sides of every issue).

In the end, Trump's failure to lead his party laid bare a fact that everyone who really follows these things already knew.

The Republcian party had been ranting about Obamacare for seven years, promising to repeal and replace it.

In fact, they never had a plan to replace it. Never. Instead, McConnell gathered a group of health industry lobbyists in a room and slapped together a bill in secret. No hearings, no debate.

In the end, the final bill was a far cry from Trump's breezy and empty promises.

"I don't think he lied about not colluding with the Russians during the election."

Whatever doubt remains about that exist almost entirely in the imaginations of a dwindling number of Trump die hard supporters.

That the Russians own Trump is in little doubt. They know far more about Trump's finances than he will ever voluntarily tell you. They hold all the markers.

"I don't think he lied about believing in law and order and supporting the police."

This is an old play in the white resentment playbook. It's the same play the Nixon and Agnew used in the late 1960's, and it is aimed at exactly the same audience. It's a dog whistle to white resentment and racial fear.

"I don't think he lied about his feelings about press coverage of him."

I doubt that either. Trump has terrible press, and he works hard to earn it.

Again, this is a play to resentment. Making a free press the enemy appeals to the sense of grievance in flyover country.

A real leader wouldn't worry too much about it. Harry Truman summed it up. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

Come to think of it, Truman had a sign on his desk, "The Buck Stops Here".

Trump subscribes to neither notion. Demonizing the press plays to his audience, and drives it into the warm and familiar embrace of a conservative media that spins and panders in place of informing. Joseph Goebells would be proud to see his principles being so diligently applied.

"I don't think he's lying when he says he loves the USA."

So, everyone does.

"I don't think he's lying or being deceptive over showing respect for the flag and the anthem."

I don't think so either. This is the easiest play in politics. Flag waving.

 

Do you believe that President Trump has lied? I repeat, It has become a defense of deflection and degree." For your personal edification I believe that Hillary Clinton has lied. This however has nothing to do with whether or not President Trump lies or tells the truth.

 

I havent seen any evidence of a lie. Be more specific.

 

Well, that's better than socialist/community activist who held a passionate hatred for the Constitution and all things American.

 

Another thread where the RW "defense" is, hey what about other people, that makes our lying bum cool.

 

If Obama lied like he did about ACA as a private company on the way to the 2012 election he would be in jail for fraud

 

What's to study? I have learned more than that guy from a decade of reading forum just like this one! The most obvious is, all forums of this genre have the very same personalities and almost impossible to separate the atmosphere within any of them!

Only difference is the avatar names, and even then identical in some cases

 

Same with these topics... TRUMP BAD/I'M MAD. *yawn*

 

Tom, we see things differently. But you put a fair amount of effort into that reply, so it deserves a response. I don't like when I put a lot of effort into some answer to someone and get nothing back. So ... onward.

Tom, I thought Hillary, as Secretary of State, was incompetent. I cite the Libyan debacle and the Syrian debacle as examples. Based upon her performance in that position, I knew I could never support her as Commander in Chief. I also do not think she was respected by Wall Street; I think she was owned by Wall Street. The one thing she was good at was leveraging her position for money that poured into her Foundation and to her and Bill personally.

From what I've seen and heard, Trump was mostly successful. He certainly did have some business failures, but he certainly didn't go broke either.

You just described Hillary as well.

Look, I'm not going to say Trump never lies. But, on the other hand, I think he often spouts off when he doesn't know all the facts. I think he is factually incorrect at times. I think he spouts off out of anger. I don't admire any of that about the man. But I think Hillary's lies are carefully crafted and habitual and remorseless. I think Hillary's lies are premeditated.

Anyone who is in politics likes to take credit for good things and not for bad things. I think his determination to lower the corporate tax rate speaks to keeping those companies operating in the U.S., and to luring foreign companies to U.S. soil. I do not believe those who think he just wants more money for himself. He's got enough money already to live among the top 1%. A percentage decrease in corporate tax is not going to change his life.

True. We'll see what happens during the rest of his term. This, of course, would require congressional action, and I have little faith in Congress. I believe they are all prostitutes, frankly.

I don't agree with any of this. I reject the idea that opposition to open borders appeals to a racist fear. Objectively, I think that when you flood the labor market, wages are held down. If there was a shortage of labor, wages would be forced up by competition for the available labor. Regardless of their skin color or native language, bountiful cheap labor hurts workers in low-skill and semi-skilled positions. The Mexicans you spoke of could all be lily white and English-speaking, and the problem would be the same.

And I also don't think Americans who have lost their jobs because their job moved to Mexico or Asia are so ignorant that they blame immigration for that.

I don't think 2nd Amendment supporters care what Trump's private thoughts about it are. They care about what he says and does. They care about the judges he appoints. And so far, on both counts, they have not been disappointed.

I think what Americans want is fairness. That's all. I don't think that's too much to ask for. If the balance of trade between the U.S. and the rest of the world is roughly even, that is good for all of us.

Since Trump has become president, he has let the regional generals go after our enemies without making them approve every little mission through Washington. If you check this link, you will see a graph showing the number of air strikes against ISIS by month. And you will see a dramatic increase since Trump took over in January.

https://airwars.org/data/

They have also spiked up against Al Shabab in Somalia (aligned with Al Qaeda) and in Yemen against AQAP (Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula).

https://www.longwarjournal.org/us-airstrikes-in-the-long-war

Clearly, just as he said he would, our generals have been set loose to go after our enemies.

I don't think the list was random, and I do think we owe it to our people to be very guarded about who may enter our country.

I think he wants lower taxes, but I also agree with you that he is not a "detail guy". I share your skepticism that the Congress should be left to its own devices to bring this about. I have already told you my opinion of Congress. Honestly, I am not a cheerleader for these tax cut plans. My preference would be to balance the budget first, then consider tax cuts. But, he said he would lower taxes, and, as imperfect as the bill may turn out to be, I think he was truthful about this.

Yes, the Republicans blew it. Trump and the Congress should listen to me. I have good ideas about health care.

I don't think the evidence exists. I don't think there was ever a point where Trump said to the Russians, "If you do this for me, I'll do this for you if I win."

Again, I disagree. I think everyone expects the police to behave lawfully, and I think everyone agrees that police who intentionally violate the law should be fired and prosecuted. On the other hand, I don't think most people want the police persecuted at the behest of a political mob or an actual mob.

And no university and no city should ever be afraid to uphold and enforce peace and safety. I think a lot of people are sick and tired of cities who tell their police to stand down and do nothing while a mob burns and trashes their city.

In my objective opinion, Tom, for all intents and purposes, ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN are arms of the Democratic Party. Fox, of course, is on the other side. I think we all know this, whether we'll admit it out loud or not. When those organizations cover non-political news, like a hurricane for example, they're fine. But with political stories, they are little more than propagandists, and they can be malicious. Trump is the first president ever to tell the truth about this. Other presidents have known it. This one states it out loud and punches back. I don't mind this. The freedom of the press should always be respected. But bias and maliciousness need not be.

Including his faults, I think this man is very transparent. But I like this. I prefer this over the alternative we were offered who would have been the polar opposite - secretive and carefully scripted, surrounded by a mafia-like organization, deliberately nebulous, and impossible to pin down on anything, ever.

So there is the reply you deserved by taking the time and effort to reply to me as you did. Cheers!

 

Why wait to judge Trump and not Hillary?

 

Didn't read whole thread. The big irony is that Complex-MSM LIES about what a lie is, egregiously so lately in its 90% negative coverage of Trump.

A lie is -not- a statement of opinion that ends up being proven incorrect. A lie is -not- a moderate exaggeration. A lie is -not- a misstatement of fact without the intent to deceive. A lie is not a figure of speech.

A lie IS repeating misinformation purposefully after it's been demonstrated wrong. A lie IS omitting necessary context from a claim purposefully. A lie IS fake news, and a lie is "straw man/red herring" fact checking, where a true statement is categorized as a lie by focusing on a tangent or nitpick instead of the main claim. Hypothetical example "My rally last night was full to the rafters!" Dishonest MSM replies "Lie because people don't actually sit in the rafters." REAL lies are the domain of statists and LW, as evidenced many times a day on this forum. They are simply incapable of framing any issue in an honest, straightforward way.

The gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex is the KING of lies, nothing else comes close, has been the case for 100 years now, so hearing their MSM outlets go on about Trump lying is hypocritical and funny at the same time.

 

Ouch, I would delete the thread if I were the OP after that

 

Because we have a political and government service record of Hillary that spans many years. To judge whether Trump is "worthy" of the office he now holds, I just need more time. I don't think I can answer whether or not he's "worthy" of the office until I can look upon his overall performance over a chunk of time. The people who voted for Trump took a gamble by electing him. By the end of his first term, I'll be able to answer that question.