Capitalism vs Collectivism- whats the real debate?

if so why not present your best example of this deflecting for whole world to see? Its your great opportunity but you will let it pass by because you really have no example. To imagine that conservatism has deflected for 2000 years is absurd.

 

so you now agree that central banks cause inflation and not capitalism??

 

Yes. I said that but you previously lumped both together as the same - "privately owned".

 

Yes, they are both privately owned by their owners. In a WSDE, the owners are the workers.

 

You think that means anything significant to the discussion? What?

 

Yes, I do think that it means something significant to the discussion. It seems that many people are resistant to socialism, because they envision a Soviets-style system.

However, since you explained that socialism is simply WSDEs, and WSDEs are just another form of privately owned business, it should make people less resistant to the idea. I mean, why do I care whether a business is a sole proprietorship, or a partnership, or a joint stock corporation, or a WSDE. They're all just private companies that have no scary powers over anyone.

 

I consider that a good, valid position.

 

but Kode is an open Marxist while "Marxist analysis" got 120 million killed.
if you're going for 200 million dead given the history you find a benign way to slip "workers of the world unite" into the conversation." HItler Stalin Mao Castro etc did not tell the truth in the beginning!!

Norman Thomas ( socialist presidential candidate)
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.

 

You'll probably get more disagreement between socialists than anything. This reflects the diversity in political economic thinking. That is something of course to celebrate. Homogeneity in thought leads to stagnancy (and idiocy such as neo-liberalism)

 

Blather on, racist trump defenders. I have nothing more to say to you in this thread.

 

But I DIDN'T say that at all, however it's nice to see that you agree that inflation is what is producing wealth disparity and poverty.

Anything you EVER said? Perhaps not in this thread, but it's something that needs to be recognized anytime statistical graphs, charts, and numbers are applied as the means of promoting ones beliefs.

I don't recall either I or Longshot making such a claim.

Your response makes no sense to me.

The economy is the production and consumption by and of the PEOPLE

 

Liberals play the race card all the time to take advantage of white guilt because their arguments make no sense. IF you have a liberal; argument that makes sense who not present it?

 

What???

 

I think every successful revolution has resulted in at least an attempt to change the economic system. IOW that was the goal. Please comment if you feel this is not true.

I believe the chance of a violent uprising increases as the population of a country loses their standard of living, their freedoms, their rights, . . . IOW, when they find themselves oppressed and they begin to sense that they no longer have anything to lose, not that the majority of the people rise up, but that their discontent "gives permission" to a radical, revolutionary domestic force to rise up in their name. Please comment if you feel this is not true.

Assuming that you agree with the above, I believe the USA will continue to provide a declining standard of living and increasing suffering and oppression for the majority. And so I believe that one day in the undefined future there will be a violent rebellion and revolutionary uprising in the USA as conditions get worse and worse and worse. No matter how we look at it, no system goes on forever. Every one will eventually crash and inevitably such crashes take down the people with it, into great suffering and lawless desperation.

I believe that whether it happens that way or in some other way, our economy will be replaced by another one some day, and there is no other viable economic system but socialism. We will eventually transition to socialism, I believe. There is nowhere else to go as this economy fails as it must.

History shows the likely result of a violent revolution. We saw it with the USSR and China and it's not a "place" we want to go. I'll bet a full 97-98% of the population don't want a repeat of the experiences of those countries in any way.

So I press forward to advance socialist businesses: WSDEs, because it is happening peacefully, it is happening gradually and so giving those forming and working in those businesses time to adjust to difficulties, to learn how to make it work, to learn how to grow them, and it gives the public an opportunity to see what can be. It will force those WSDEs to compete with traditional businesses and that means learning the value of, and habit of, innovation and continual advancement. It means developing the new economy on solid ground and having to be better than the alternative traditional business.

This is exciting to me. I just wanted to share this with you because you and I have fought, argued, and discussed these things more than any other poster. Now maybe we can agree on more points of it. We'll see.

 

No where to go but socialism? China just switched away from socialism to prevent another 70 million from slowly starving to death. Notice how easy a liberal is defeated with just a few words.

 

Notice how ignorant of the history and facts the right is. And I'm not a liberal. You don't know much about this, huh? And it seems you aren't interested in learning, opting instead for your learned propaganda and brainwashing. Most people see that as desperation.

Hence your post here is incorrect on every point.

 

if so you would not be so afraid to point out an obviously incorrect point for whole word to see. What are is the liberal learning from his fear?

 

I admire your enthusiasm. As I mentioned before, my son is an owner/worker in a WSDE, to I understand the appeal. I think that if the majority of people want socialism, then we will see growth in the number of WSDEs.

The only thing I'm opposed to is a violent revolution in which people's bodies and/or property are threatened.

 

What company? Or if you don't want to reveal that, how many shares of the company does he own approximately?

Agreed.

 

The real debate, as always, is capitalism v. human survival.

 

http://pvsquared.coop/

 

The real debate, as always, is the state v. human survival.

 

The 'State', obviously, is the organisation controlled by the central committee of the current ruling class - nowadays, everywhere, the extremely rich exploiters who steal what we produce to brainwash mugs.

 

Yep, the state is a criminal gang writ large.